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how do i lower my pH it is 8.7 I am trying to get it down to 8.0 . i have a high alkalinity a high kH and my gH is hard. its a 55 gallon tank

You would have to do slowly mix acidic water into your tank. The best way to do that is to buy RO water and treat it with a pH lowering product (like granulated peat or a commercial additive) and add it as make-up water after a water change. After several changes, most of the buffered, high pH water will be gone and your tank's pH will have lowered.

Really though, there isn't a big need to keep pH at a specific level. As long as the tank's water is clean and well-oxygenated, the vast majority of freshwater fish will be happy.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Instead of constantly fiddling with the water, save some headache and get african cichlids that would thrive in it

The Amazon Nut...

Ah come on MossMan............ I have hard water I don't do anything to it & still have just regular fish.

Don't worry fishfry......... I have a 55 gal. too. Look at my profile & you'll see what I have in there. I just wrote this same thing today in another post. Go to "search" & type in "Help with PH debate." You'll find a lot of useful info. in there.

Though your idea of cilchlids is a good one for our water MossMan, some of us don't want to deal with their aggression, at least not yet............... maybe someday.

Well, not all of them are aggressive. And some of the more interesting ones (shelldwellers) can be kept in small tanks.

Of course, another couple of solutions are to go with brackish or marine aquariums...

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

fish patty,

Your fish may seem ok now but what if they die in 2 years instead of 5-8 ? Some fish adapt. Adapt might mean they exist, but have a shorter lifespan, or never spawn.

I had the same problem where I lived last. The water was 8.2 ph, I lowered to 7.8 trying different methods..
Ph was not consistent with those methods, swings were a problem and the gh was still to high. ( I've tried peat, water softener pillow, mixing purchased r/o water and the like). That was the only time I've switched to african cichlids and they thrived in the tanks

Fishfry,
What kind of fish do you keep ?



The Amazon Nut...

MossMan- I can't really discuss this issue with you as I've had no long term experience using my hard well water in my fish tank. It has only been set up since this summer. The reason that I give the advice that I do on hard water is because that is what five people advised me when I posted on here about my hard water.

The first part of that thread I mentioned, "Help with PH debate" is those people advising me to leave my water alone. The last half is not necessary to read as we are only discussing different water test kits.

Ok.............. I copied the relevant info. on what these people had to say & am putting it below. One persons opinion is missing cause for some odd reason it wouldn't copy. This is where I get my current opinion from:
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I think pH is much less important than people like to say it is. I suspect that it is considered as a guideline because it's connected to other parameters, most importantly pollutant levels. A sudden dip in pH could indicate an ammonia spike. However, many folks don't know this, and attach too much value to pH without understanding why. If you can keep your water clean and the parameters fairly stable, you will not have a problem with most fish.
"In general, the fish that you will purchase are one to ten generations removed from their natural habitat. If you modify your water parameters to match the nonsense (facts) that you have heard/read, you are ignoring two basic truths. The first is that you should attempt to duplicate the environment to that environment that the fish are accustomed to whether it be in a hobbyist's tank in Chicago or the LFS."
I'm not sure I agree with this part of the quoted post, though the rest is sound advice. Though most freshwater aquarium fish were captive bred, I don't feel that a few generations of living in different water will change a fish species's preference for the water of their natural habitat. I haven't seen any evidence either way, so I'm just going with my gut. Since freshwater fish are generally very adaptable, it's pretty much a moot point.
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PH does not matter unless you are breeding fish or keeping very sensitive fish. Very very few fish stores soften their water so your fish have already been acclimated and are living in higher ph water. Unless you see cause for concern based on how your fish are acting there is no reason to lower the ph. 7.6 isn't even that high. Try 8.6 and I still rarely have trouble keeping any fish. Pretty much all fish sold in stores will acclimate to a ph around 8.0 or lower without issue. Some just take longer to acclimate than others depending on what water they've been living in.
If you do have a reason to lower ph the best way to soften water is RO or distilled and it's not that expensive for a 55g. Even for my 90g it only cost me a couple bucks a month. Most grocery stores in the US are installing RO machines that give refills for $.25/g. Heck even the little grocery store in my town of less than 3000 had one and this town has one in both walmart and hyvee. Any lfs that sells saltwater will generally also sell RO for that price. Diluting the water first is the only good way to lower the ph in my opinion. If you can't do that then your better off not messing with it at all and just avoid buying sensitive wild caught fish online or from stores that aren't local to you.
PH down will cause you many headaches and probably cost you some fish. It does not keep the ph low. Within 24hours your ph will bounce right back up eventually killing your fish. I would never recommend it unless you want some dead fish and using RO water would probably be cheaper than having to replace your fish. Neutral regulator isn't too bad and can be used effectively but only if you take very frequent ph measurements and I would setup an empty test tank of around 10gallons until you know how much to use for your tapwater. All of seachem's ph regulators interact in complicated ways and it cannot be predicted how much is required for your tapwater. They also say when using their products to change the ph that the acids produced normally in any tank with fish with give a different ph than if you leave a bucket with only water in it sitting around. Premixing is hit or miss and you usually have to prepare the water right before you do a water change.
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"I believe sirbooks also said I could......... or more or less said it didn't matter."
Yep, no need to screw around with it. I don't alter any of my water parameters outside of dechlorinator and water changes. For general purposes, it's more trouble than it's worth.
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K', I'm no chemist but here goes. First of all pH is a measure of acidity not hardness. kH measures hardness. I'm not sure I understand all that too much, but here's what I know. The fish in your tank are adaptable and have become acclimated to the water in your tank. Changing the parameters would probably only stress them. Do not necessarily believe those info cards at walmart or any other lfs, many of them contain inaccurate information. If your fish are happy and healthy let them be. Also, CONSTANT parameters are more important than what "the book" says are the right parameters. I may catch some flack for that but so be it, keeping your temp and pH constant are arguably some of the most important things you can do.
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Honestly, all the advice has been good, however, if your
water truly is 7.6pH, I don't think I'd worry about it and
simply enjoy the fish. As was mentioned, unless these are
fish fresh from the wild, they have been raised in huge
outdoor fish "farms" and they simply use local spring/well/
stream, water. They would live and thrive in your water
just fine. Now, if you wanted to breed them, you might have
to "induce" then into the mood, by a large water change
of RO or Distilled water, or add a bunch of peat moss to
some water on the side and add it. Something to simulate
a change in the season duplicating the monsoon season where
the stream or pond (water chemistry) that they, as a
species are used to, suddenly is diluted by a flood or
massive rainfall. In other words, you fake them out by
diluting the water and holding it there for a week or two
and then with water changes return it to the normal, higher
pH & hardness.
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MossMan- You asked, "Your fish may seem ok now but what if they die in 2 years instead of 5-8 ? Some fish adapt. Adapt might mean they exist, but have a shorter lifespan, or never spawn."

Apparently I can't answer that question, as my tank is new. I would have to leave that answer up to the experienced fish people that made those quotes I just posted, or others that have experienced keeping fish in hard water. But I like your attitude in questioning what others say........... you remind me of myself.


Hey............ that's the way we learn, right?

Fish patty

Your ph of 7.6 (only slightly hard) is a far cry from 8.7, (liquid rock) which would kill all the fish that have adapted in YOUR tank. Neither you or the wise people in your thread that 'leave their ph be' have a ph or kh even remotely close to fishfry's.

Shall he 'leave his ph be' they will die a stressful death from ph shock or osmotic poisoning. The info that is correct in one thread does not make it right in every thread, and can cost people their fish.
Please teach what you know, not what others know.
(I did this too)

And yes, keep learning and growing with the rest of us


Fishfry

An RO unit (which can be expensive, and also waste at least 4 times the water they produce) is probably the only viable longterm option for this tank. Unless you're a breeder, well off financially, or otherwise paying the water bill, switch to the hardwater African cichlids. Or, brackish or marine as Sirbooks suggests. It's alot easier to choose fish that suit your water, then it is to get your water to suit the fish.

Peace,
Da




The Amazon Nut...

MossMan- My ph of 7.6 was from an older test kit & that was all it went up to. I got a new test kit since then & I just tested my water. This is what it says:

total hardness (GH) ppm only goes up to 300 on this kit & my reading is as dark as that picture

Alkalinity (KH) ppm only goes up to 300 also & mine is as dark as that

pH only goes to 8.4 & mine is as dark as that.

So I assume that my readings are at least that high, but could be even higher if the charts went higher?

OMG I most definately apologize to you for my post and am now eating my words with FP as witness. I'm Sorry !

It was not meant as a personal attack. However, I should have read your thread, before making any comment on your ph and such ?

Ok, your own test results are very freaky. That's the dangerous gh and kh I'm talking about. It's like taking
concrete blocks and put them in a 'juicer'. Your test kits may be expired. Is this a liquid test kit ? What about taking a sample of your water to the local fish store for testing ? (and share the results). It the test results are very different then replace your kit.

I hope it's the test kit for your fishes sake.
Once again, my humble apologies.
I feel stupid now. Hate when that happens.......
Da

EDIT - Ph can go higher

The Amazon Nut...

It's ok MossMan........ a lot of things can be misunderstood by writing, especially when you're trying to discuss a problem & different posts & threads are involved.

I have noticed there is often a difference of opinion on here, such as you consider a reading of 8.7 to be (liquid rock), while another person said, "Try 8.6 and I still rarely have trouble keeping any fish. I had no more problems with well water than tapwater. It was slightly better since I didn't have to worry about chlorine but slightly harder occasionally reaching a ph near 9 in dry weather."

Without much experience, all I know to do is follow the advice given on here. I usually ask for several opinions before making up my mind what to do. In the case of my water, I just left it alone (like advised) & got whatever fish I wanted. So far they seem to be doing good. My danios spawn, a guppy just had babies the other night & last night my angels laid eggs on a pothos leaf.

So I'm thinking that our aquarium fish have gotten a lot more used to harder water than they used to be generations ago.

No, my test kits are not the liquid kind, but they WERE new when I got them a couple mo. ago. I was advided to get the better liquid kind & I do plan on that. My husband had the money once when he was in the big city & stopped by to get them, but as luck would have it, the two places he stopped by were fresh out of them. But after we recover from Christmas, he'll try again.

You ask, why not take a sample of my water to my LFS for testing? My LFS in this little town is Wal-mart. Enough said? As my fish seem to be doing fine, I can wait till hubby goes to the big city again, (with money in his pocket) & buys me a good liquid test kit.

You also say (and share the results). I intend to do that, as we had a big discussion on water test kits & I was told that our $20. test kits may not be that accurate. I was quite upset over that if we had just wasted $20., so I was going to eventually post the results comparing my test kits with the new better liquid ones, (when we got them) seeing if there was a difference.

I kind of doubt if there will be, as I took my test kits to a relatives house & tested their two tanks & the results came out good for them. But some day we'll know for sure & I'll post the results on here.

So what happened to poor fishfry? I hope we didn't ward him off. It's ok fishfry....... you'll occasionally find a difference of opinion on here......... but usually enough people give their opinions that you are able to make up your mind what you want to do.