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Hello, I am new here. My children have been asking about fish for I don't even know how long, and my husband recently admitted that he'd really like to have an aquarium as well. We are still very much in the "planning" stage and are thinking that a smallish aquarium might be a nice idea, around Easter. So I've got a few months to research & learn, and for us to decide whether fish are a good idea for us or not. I'm starting with almost no knowledge here & could use all the help & advice anyone would care to give.

Right now I have a kitchen counter that regularly holds a 200lb adult, climbing & walking around on it. There is a spot out of direct sunlight, right next to an outlet that ought to work well for a smaller tank. It is across the room from the oven or fridge so there wouldn't be excess heat or drafts, and it's all but completely "out of the way" while still being very visible to the main portion of the house. I've just measured and the space we're looking at is 33" long by 23" deep by 23" high. But because we haven't tested the counter with anything past 200lbs, I'd be afraid to put anything heavier than that on it.

So if I'm right we have room for something a little bigger than a 10 gallon tank, correct? Does anyone have a more precise size?

What we are looking for right now is:

What would be the best way for us to go about setting up a tank, that would fit in the area we have?

What type of fish would be good for beginners with no prior experience?

What is the difference between saltwater & freshwater, and coldwater & warmwater from a care/financial/ease point of view?

and What about all of the other critters that live in a tank, like shrimp, snails or frogs? What do you or don't you want to put into a tank, and why?

I'll be poking around as much as possible to find as many answers as I can as well, but if anyone happens to have a "fish tanks 101" speech all ready to go, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks so much!

Homeschoolmama, Welcome to FP

It is great that you start now with the planning for a fish tank that you want to set up around Easter. Planning is the most important thing and helps avoiding these “why didn’t you ask me before the fact” questions .

I don’t have a fish keeping 101 ready to go, as it probably would take about 4 hours to write. But I think that you are doing one of the first 2 steps on your own just nicely, the identification of the tank size and location. Maybe you would like to have a look at [link=This Site]http://www.all-glass.com/services/index.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] – click on Technical Info under Services to see a list with the tank dimensions of the most common tank sizes (and the weight).

If I would have to make a statement about ease of care, maintenance, and financial burden, I would say (others might disagree) from cheap to expensive: Cold Fresh, Warm Fresh, Salt. But when viewing the options from a “beauty” perspective the order would be the other way around

Tell you what: why don’t you first find out the rough type of tank you would like, like fresh or salt. Then we will dig in deeper, like cold or warm, and deeper, like planted or not, and so forth. And at any point you can change your mind .

Hope this helps at least a little, I know it is far away from a 101,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow, so it looks like we could hold a 20 gallon tank without a problem! That would be great, as my husband wants to get one tank, stock it well & not have to keep getting larger tanks.

I've poked around a bit more, and I think we would probably be better off starting with freshwater fish... so many that I saw are available locally, so we're not likely to fall in love with one type & not find it and they don't look too difficult to care for compared to some of the instructions I saw for saltwater fish. But it looks like for the fish I was looking at, we'd be looking at a heated tank.

From what I see, in a 20 gallon tank we would be most interested in the smaller fish. Preferably nonagressive, as I would have no idea what to do about a fish-fight or how to care for an injured fish.

So from what I've read so far, a tentative tank might be:
bottomfeeders: 2-3 loaches or about 6 corys
middlefeeders: about 6 of the gentler tetras or rasboras
surfacefeeders: 2-3 danios or maybe a single male betta
or replace either the middle or surfacefeeding fish with 3-4 mollies or guppies.

I took into consideration the sizes & temperaments of the fish, the PH & temperatures needed, and the sizes & numbers recommended... am I anywhere close to appropriate for a happy 20 gallon tank full of fish?

Hi there,
Yes a 20 or 25g long tank should fit very nicely in
your location.
Heres what you are thinking:
2-3 loaches or about 6 corys
about 6 of the gentler tetras or rasboras
2-3 danios or maybe a single male betta
3-4 mollies or guppies

Ok, if you choose a loach, there are several smaller
species, Kuhli Loaches (long, black with orange stripes),
Polka Dot Loaches (dark chocolate color with light spots), dwarf chain loach (botia sidthimunki)You could have 4 of any of these species. I would say any other species of loach grows really too large for that type of stocking.

For corys, you could have a group of 6 of any of the medium-smaller corys - pandas, hasbrosus, pygmy, trilineatus, ambiacus, aggassizzi, julli, etc etc. Avoid the larger corys like bandit(metae), aeneus (bronze/albino, and pepper, or brochis green catfish. They all get too large at about 3 inches, and more for the brochis.

Then for the middle, a colorful tetra or rasbora or other fish would do nicely in a group of 6. Some choices:
glowlight tetra, neon tetra, cardinal tetra, lemon tetra, silvertip tetra, bloodfin tetra, rummynose tetra, cochus blue tetra, etc. Harlequin or Lambchop rasbora, emerald rasbora, exclamation point rasbora, etc. Small rainbowfish like Celebes, Threadfin, or Blue Eyes. Other fish such as Beckfords and other Pencilfish (great interesting little fish).

For top, there are some choices. I like the idea of a nice male betta- look for one in a tank with other fish in the fish store, watch for aggression. Try to choose a peaceful seeming one.
However, there are other choices - Marbled Hatchetfish or Marthaes hatchets, Danios (leopard, zebra, pearl, long fins or short fins), White Cloud Mountain Minnows.

If you got a 25g Long tank, I would do this:
6 Corys or 4 Kuhli Loaches
6 Tetra/Other small fish
6 White Cloud Minnows or 1 betta or 4 Danios

That would be a nice stocking and would be fine. If you went with a 20g, I would go with this:
5 Corys or 4 kuhli loaches
5 tetra/other small fish
1 male betta, or 5 white clouds, or 3 danios.

Good luck!
Please read this article on Cycling its great, easy to understand, and can explain it better than me.

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

P.S. forgot to mention - I wouldnt do mollies or guppies as fry will overwhelm such a small tank rapidly, and some mollies grow too large like Sailfins/Dalmation/Lyretails etc at 4-6 inches.
If you were set on guppies or mollies, go with a trio of male guppies, or a pair of male mollies, avoiding the largest ones. These fish are often e to health problems from inbreeding.

Last edited by So_Very_Sneaky at 23-Dec-2005 16:50

Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
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EDIT: didn't see So_Very_Sneaky's entry until I finished typing mine, have to go back and read her's now

EDIT II: uh, it seems So_Very_Sneaky and I are pretty much in sink, no reason to change my data.


homeschoolmama,

Wow, you sure are doing your homework fast. If we keep moving at this speed you would be ready to buy the tank in time for Xmas .

20G heated freshwater, good choice - not to say that the others are not, but I think you picked an option that is rather easy to implement and still gives you lots of options.

About your fish selection:

You know the Guppy is also known as the millions fish, right? And the Molly (and Platy/Swordtail) is not too far behind. These fish have babies faster than you can blink (only slightly exaggerated). You would have to make sure to get only males if you don’t want to be overstocked soon. Mollies grow quite a bit bigger than Guppies.

I am not qualified to talk about loaches, I know way too little about them, but a school of 6 Cories is very nice, maybe a species on the smaller side, like Pandas.

6 to 8 smaller Tetras or Rasboras are an excellent choice for a mid level school. I say 8 because rather often than not one or the other kicks the bucket and if you buy only 6 to begin with your school might be too small and fall apart.

Danios, well, I have them. They are not really top dwelling fish, they are all over the place. And active, very active, very very active. They don’t bug other fish directly, but they also make sure that there is no rest phase in the tank. Did you pick them because you consider cycling your tank with them?

And I have no idea about male Bettas in a community aquarium, others might know more.

Next question to you: do you want to keep it simple or be a little more involved and try some real plants?

Hope this helps,

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 23-Dec-2005 16:54

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 23-Dec-2005 16:56

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh, thank you both! I've copied off the list of all the potential fish, to show my husband & the kids the types that would be appropriate. It's easier than going to the pet store & just picking one for us.

Okay, so no guppies or molly's. The only reason I'd chosen these, is my parents bred both before I was born & swear that they're the easiest thing to care for. But I don't really want to wake up one morning to find millions of fish... scratching them off the list.

But other than that, it's nice to know that we're more or less on the right track. And that there are SO many options!

I have heard about a fishless cycling. I would prefer this over cycling with live fish, as I don't want to buy "disposable fish" and this is what I would feel I were doing. Honestly, the danios were on my list because they are small, listed as gentle, and "looked cute."

As far as real plants versus artificial, I would really prefer to go with real plants. They sound like they would add to the quality of the water, not add TOO much extra muss & fuss, and would just plain be the "better" way to go. That being said, all I've researched so far on this is the live vs artifical factor so I have NO idea what I'm getting myself into quite yet.

Danios are also one of the most hyperactive fish you can find and depending on other fish in the tank such as a betta they may not get along. My 3 dive bombed my congo tetra schooling into hiding. They do best with other hyper fish, fish that won't mind bouncing insane danios, or only bottom feeders in the tank. White clouds are similar and actually more of a coldwater species. They can occasionally be nippy too and might remove the fins off a betta. Personally I would not put either of those 2 anywhere near a betta but someone will probably come along and say it worked fine for them.

If you want a really active tank I would do 3-5danios and 3-4 cochu's blue tetras in the top level of the tank with no other slow swimming fish. Cories and loaches would get along fine with them. These guys are both hyper little fish that love to chase each other around all day long. Cochu's are also one of the most brightly colored tetras and actually mildly antisocial so they do better in small groups instead of around 6 plus like other tetras. Many people ask if these blue tetras are dyed because they are such a bright pretty color.
If you really want a betta I would drop the danios/white clouds and just do a school of peaceful small-midsize tetras such as black neons. They are bigger than neons or cardinals and stand out more but would still fit in a 20g.

Sneaky and Little Fish have given you some great suggestions. There are alot of options for a 20 or 25g as opposed to a 5 or 10g. You can have a nice school of tetras and even cories.
For tetras, I suggest Rummynose tetras...only because they are my favorite. I have 7 in my 55g and they are just beautiful. They school very nicely and look great all together. They are also very peaceful. Any of Sneaky's suggestions would work and all are peaceful.
I also like the idea of a male Betta. I have one in my 10g with 9 neons and 2 ottos. He is very peaceful and only rarely chases after them, but would never hurt them. He is only curious. It is hard to tell if they will be aggressive or not when added to a community tank. After all most of the time they live in the little bowls in pet stores all by themselves.
Real plants are the way to go in my opinion. My first planted tank was my 10g and as long as you research to make sure you buy plants suitable for your size aquarium and lighting, you will have a beautiful aquarium. You may have to upgrade the lighting to have a better selection of plants, it just depends on what type of lights come with the tank.
Things can get a bit expensive, but compared to a saltwater tank, it is rather cheap from what I hear. One warning, this hobby is addicting. Soon you and your family will be looking for other places to put tanks. I am experiencing that myself, but I have run out of space. Good luck and if you have any more questions just ask. There are so many people on this website that are very knowledgable (sp?) and friendly.

edit: Where are my manners?? Welcome to FP!!:%)

Last edited by GirlieGirl8519 at 23-Dec-2005 17:38

*Kristin*

homeschoolmama,

Yup, fishless cycle is an option

Did your research already come across a product called Bio Spira? It speeds up the fishless cycle to less than a week

Also, if you should decide on having a planted tank (with a sufficient plant mass) and if you are willing to stock slowly then you might not need to worry about cycling at all as plants love ammonia as one of their nutrients.

And about not knowing what one is getting him/herself into: We all didn’t know .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

ok, if you want a male beta for the tank, then you better have a 1 gallon tank ready if something heppens to him some bettas dont like current, and can get very stressed, but others (like the chocolate boy in my 20 gallon long) absolutly love the current!

also in the tank i have 3 female, 3 male guppies, and few fry, i have 3 ottos, 3 zebra danios (who resently bred, and i saved 3 ) 1 female bolivian ram, 1 baby cichlid, 1M 1F molly (no fry),3 threadfin rainbows, 10 corys (6 are tiny babys that i bought)2 babys plecos (gunna be upgraded)

and probably a few more lol it is densly planted and all my fish are happy

Thanks so much No, I guess danios aren't for us either. Our lives are so hectic that the thought of crazy spastic fish sounds just awful to me. Peaceful, calm fish sound more my speed... I have a hyperactive teenage guinea pig already, and he rules our house & his cagemates as it is.

But that's alright, since I really liked the idea of one pretty betta in with the other fish. I'm getting a list together of what fish do & don't nip fins, so he would be safe with our choices. And I found a pretty 3 gallon tank that I could have ready in case it doesn't work out, so he can still live in comfort.

I have read about a few types of chemicals to speed up the cycling process. I'm a teeny bit paranoid about unnecessary chemicals, and would feel much more comfortable just taking it slowly. I'm not really in a hurry, and want to be sure that everything is done right.

Thank you all so much!

Products like biospira aren't chemicals. They are the bacteria that your tank needs to complete the nitrogen cycle or some products are food that helps the bacteria multiply faster. Completely harmless stuff even if you overdose it.

All my tanks are planted so I don't worry too much about cycling them. I just add a few small fish along with the plants and slowly stock the tank from there. For my first 2 tanks I used danios once and did fishless cycle once. Fishless cycle is definitely easier than catching hyper danios to return them after the tank is cycled. I had to drain the whole tank to get them out again.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO don't add bettas and mollies together whatever you do, my betta killed the molly I bought earlier. . .

Sorry to sound so panicky but I don't want you losing fish like I did. . .Um 20 gallons would be good, avoid aggressive species like tiger barbs and some angelfish (prolly a bit big for your tank anyways) and mollies (lots of health probs plus they don't get along with many fish) if you are going to do the betta, I have a cory with mine and they get along great, and avoid guppies, angelfish, mollies, and long flowing fins.

Bettas are completely personality dependent. Some will get along with mollies, guppies, other livebearers, angelfish so on.. and some won't get along with even the most compatible fish. Currently mine is in with an angelfish and livebearers. It's hard to say a betta will definitely get along with another fish or that one definitely won't get along with a certain species of fish. It really depends on the betta.

There are a few cases that are less likely to work such as long finned fish(includes some guppies that have really long colorful tail fins) and other labyrinth fish such as gouramis and paradise fish. Of course you also wouldn't mix them with anything even more agressive than a betta such as some cichlids. Other than that it's hard to predict what a betta you don't even have yet will do.