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my question is: WHEN IS IT OVER, WHAT AM I WAITING 4???
please respond quick!!!
C.J.T

I LOVE MY 55GALLON REEF!!!!!

The cycle is over when your ammonia and nitites spike and reach a peak, then fall back to zero ppm.

HTH

><>Dani<><

[hr width='40%']I don't want another pretty face
I don't want just anyone to hold
I don't want my love to go to waste
I want you and your beautiful soul

[link=you could read this......]http://www.fishprofiles.net/faq/begin-cycling.asp" style="COLOR: #FFFFFF[/link]

If you have a 0.5 mg/l of Ammonia and more than 1mg/l of NitrIte, does this mean that it is half way through the cycle?

What I look for when I see that kind of ammonia and that level of nitrite is nitrAtes. When the nitrite phase is just beginning, the ammonia is higher and the nitrite is low. More than likely when you are on the back side, the ammonia should be low and the nitrite will be low. Surest way to know is to check the nitrates. If you have any at all, that is reall good and you are almost done.

What you have to watch for when you are done, is to not throw it into a mini-cycle. Or be prepared for it. When stocking, do it gradually with several weeks in between. Nitrifying bacteria grow very slowly and if you give them time, they will grow a robust colony. If you just chuck a full tank of fish in once it is cycled, in many cases a mini-cycle starts because there aren't enough of each good bacteria to handle the load.

Overcleaning can also cause a mini-cycle shortly after it is done. Only clean about 1/3 of your gravel at a time and try not to clean the filter the same day you're doing the gravel. When I first started, I would do 1/3 of the tank each Saturday, then on the 4th, I would change the filter media or rinse it in tank water and scrub the filter/impeller.

Undercleaning can cause a problem too when so much waste builds up and throws off more ammonia than the young bacterial colony can handle. This happened to me. I couldn't get rid of a mini-cycle and finally did some deep gravel vacs in sections. I pulled everything out of 1/3 of my tank and went right to the glass. You should have seen what came up. In established tanks, much of the poop is broken down quicker, but in younger tanks, you see much more solids.

Medications will also cause mini-cycles many destroy good bacteria.

If you give us your values, and tank size, and stock list, and filter, we might be able to give you tips to speed it up.

CJT - do you have test kits? If not, please take a bag of water to the fish store and ask for ammonia, nitrite, & nitrate. Write down the values so you can watch it happening.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 19-Mar-2005 18:19

I have a 20g tank, two angelfish, one pleco and one silver shark.

ph = 7.0
Nitrites = 5 - 10 mg/l
Ammonia = 0
Nitrates = 40 mg/l
kh = 0
gh = 300 ppm

These are the latest readings. I know that during the initial phases (big mistake - I had removed one black molly whihc had given 'birth' to several fry whihc made it more difficult for the bacteria to cope but managed to remove them) I had put too many fish at once and after some time I had transferred some of the fish into another tank but cannot remove the present fish in this 20g because it is being used as a quarantine tank for suspecting ich. The above are the latest readings but I am afraid to do partial changes because I read somwehere that I might cause a mini cycle again and this tank has been setup for more than a month and that is why it is worrying me because every three or four days, the nitrite level seems to be rising but at least the Ammonia level has dropped.

- Forgive my initial shock.

I'm surprised they are still alive with nitrites that high, especially the plec. Those fish are not cycle hardy. Bare with me as I detail this out.

Is this the main tank; their home? If so, you have a real problem. Fish store people should have explained that angel fish require at least 55 gallons because they grow fast and will get as large as a big man's hand. Their fins will probably be touching the surface of the water in that tank, while the lower ones will be touching the gravel - if they live that long. In a larger tank that is cycled, it would take about 12-18 months for them to get very big. In poor water quality with any ammonia or nitrites at all, and high nitrtates (for which you are on the border), these fish will stunt and will likely have much shorter lifespans. I don't see the plec living longer than the angels in that setup.

I'm afraid with the numbers you are posting that your tank is telling you it is overstocked. With 40ppm of nitrates you should be done. How big are each of these fish because that plays a role. Remember, if you have quarter sized angels, they are mere babies and will grow quickly. Ditto with the plec. And, some plecs can get as long as the 20 gallon tank when fully grown.

You mention suspected ich. Do these fish have ich now? Are there white spots that look like grains of salt sprinkled on them, and are they rubbing against objects in the tank? If you have both of these symptoms then they likely have ich, and with good reason.

Fish in any tank can get ich. A breakout is always ready to happen if the stress level on the fish is high. NItrites can kill, much less cause stress. There's no way to medicate a tank with nitrites like that without further stressing the fish and the biofilter. Or, did you recently medicate, causing the "mini-cycle"?

Either way, a properly stocked tank would not have nitrites that high, with a nitrate load at that level, if the biological filter were working. One thing that makes it impossible is having too many fish, capable of growing to very big sizes, in a tiny tank. Sorry.

One other thing is not good with your values and it is the kH. It is zero. This would suggest that you are either using distilled water or reverse osmosis water. Even boiling can have this effect. You should check your tap water source and see if the kH is the same. Your pH could be swinging all over the map without any kH. One way to bring it up gradually, is to add very small amounts of baking soda into the tank. Just add about 1/8th of a teaspoon and wait 24 hours, then measure the kH and pH. It should begin to climb. Continue adding until you get at least to 3 degrees or 70ppm, whichever your tester shows. This will be more stable and will probably have the pH up around 7.6.

If you are using something to soften the water, please know that many fish are highly tolerant of water outside of their specified zones. Fish stores keep fish in 7.8 pH, including south american cichlids because that is where the tap water puts us. The only time it becomes necessary to lower the pH and soften the water is when breeding certain fish.

Many people land into the hobby not knowing about the nitrogen cycle, new tank syndrome, and stocking rules. It is not uncommon. If you went into a fish stores and told them it was going to be a 20 gallon and they sold you those fish, then shame on them.

There is a stocking rule you can use as a guide but it does not apply to fish like angels, oscars, goldfish, and sharks. Sharks require larger tanks even tho they stay smaller in many cases, because of aggression level. The smaller the tank, the more aggressive they are. Most sharks require a minimum 55 gallon tank in order to leave peacefully with tank mates.

Basically for the type and quantity of fish you have all together, you are looking at a 90 gallon tank on the minimum side and more likely a 125 gallon. The fish really need to go back to the fish store, if they are healhty. It is not good for them and they will die a miserable death in that tank. Many stores can give you credit or trade fishes. There are so many nice fish you can get for a 20 gallon (that don't have babies every couple weeks ).

Thanks for the response. Actually it is not their main tank and when I purchased them I did not know anythng about the nitrogen cycle (my fault I should have read someting beforehand) and no info was given to me when I purchased the fish from the store. Nonetheless, I checked the tap water, actually it has a GH of 26 but KH reading in using (Jungle sticks) still show a 0 reading. Nitrates level are absent from water. PH level is 8

I moved some of the fish into a larger tank for the time being (not much, it is only 25g until tomorrow where ammonia and nitrite levels are 0, while Nitrate is 20 mg/l I had done partial water change). The fish in question namely the pleco is only about 5-6 cm long the same size of the angel fish.

The ich problem is with another tank which I am using as a hospital tank.

I think I would opt to start all over with this tank and give back the fish.

Thanks

I think you are making a wise choice and don't beat yourself up. I think patrons have a right to expect that sales associates give them reasonable advice when they enter, especially when it is a first tank. However, I've seen first hand that some of the people they hire really don't know all the facts themselves. They mean well in many cases, but just don't know any better.

Just don't return any fish untill signs of ich are gone + one week. If you have any swarmers in your water (invisible), you will doom the fish store tank with ich.

The very best thing you can do for now Niko is to check ammonia and nitrite daily and do water changes as needed. You can even do 50% if you ensure the temp doesn't go more than 1C.

What country are you in that you can buy Jungle? Usually it is only available in US and Canada.

Sorry for not answering you back after nearly two months, but to answer your question we get most of the products namley european and american products here in Malta. Even though we are a small island in the mediterranean there are a large number of freshwater enthusiasts. Lately, a paper was published on killifish in American magazine by one Maltese who has been breeding killifish for the last twenty years or so. In todays world there are no more barriers (except those we create in our minds. I will ask the author to try to publish his paper on the net for everyone to enjoy and learn