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Just as a side note, I in no way was trying to take credit for that. I simply wanted to give her a quick response that was very informative. Some people ignore links, and I was hoping to simply give a quick reply as I was about to get off the computer when I saw her post.

Sigh. I'm glad she's not suffering anymore. I'm sure she's up in that big fishtank in the sky... maybe she's found Justice, my jumper. I was hoping they'd both be happy and healthy when I moved out of my parents' house, because I intended to breed the two of them together... I thought her sweet temper and beautiful cambodian coloring would go nicely with my sweetest, most striking male. He was blue and magenta and I thought they'd make lovely babies. Now I've lost them both.

I don't think I'm the only one who's missing her... I just caught one of her betta girl buddies staring at the corner where Thalia was lurking when she was still in the main tank. That in itself is odd, because it's the front right corner, not one I normally see anyone lurking in on a normal basis. *shrugs*

I miss my baby.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

I am sorry to hear of your loss. I know she was special to you and you did everything you could for her.

sorry Kitten *hugs* it is hard to lose a fishie friend. :#(

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If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished.

I'm sorry to hear that Kitten, she sounded special.

---

I used to be Snow White, but I drifted.
~ Mae West

Guess the increased activity must have been that one last bit of oomph before decline. I found my poor girl belly up on the gravel this morning. Not the way I want to start out my day. :#(

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Well, she seemed a bit more active today, though her physical symptoms are the same. I'm going to clean her tank tomorrow and then keep dosing the meds. I'll do testing on the 20 gallon while I'm at it and see what's up with that.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Kitten I know where you are coming from. I found it very hard to keep bettas in cycled tanks. They would only live a year or so. Do you test the nitrate level? I have some females in a planted tank and keep the nitrates under 10 ppm, they seem to do better with lower nitrates. I know you are trying hard with your lil girl, you will know if it is time to euthanize. It is hard to watch one of your babies suffer.

Susan

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If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished.

Sigh. I know her chances may not be good, but there's no way I'm letting her go without a fight. She the very first betta girl I picked out, the sweetest of all of the ones I have and has been with me since I bought my first tank (not including male bettas in bowls).

She's my peacekeeper and mediator, and apparently, official welcoming party to any newcomers that venture into my tank.

I thought I was going to lose the two who got "black eyes" from Jezebel's torment but they survived and did better than I had any right to suspect. I've already lost two girls in the past month or two and I just can't stand to lose another one. I just lost one of my favorite males to a case of dropsy I couldn't diagnose until death. This is just NOT fair.

Lately, all the random illnesses are enough to make me just want to throw in the towel. It's what made my mom stop keeping fish years ago, but I'm determined to get through this phase, darn it all!

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

So sorry you're going through this, kitten. I hate dropsy, it is so devastating when it strikes, sometimes for no reason at all. I just want to state that it's important, first of all, to not get your hopes up too high. I know this little girl is your beloved pet, and I know how hard it is to lose them, so be prepared in case she doesn't make it. I have never personally seen a fish recover past the widespread "pinecone" stage and I have to say that with the effect shown in the pictures, it doesn't look good. Basically by the time that happens, the fish is experiencing massive organ failure and the chances of recovery are very slim.

I second LB's opinion: if she isn't showing any improvement in a few days it may be wise to euthanize. First and foremost, you do not want to prolong her suffering, secondly, it is unknown whether the cause of her dropsy is contagious and the longer you keep her the more you risk exposing your other fish to the illness. Even in the most carefully kept fish rooms, everyone makes cross-contamination mistakes.

If you do need to euthanize her, and even if you don't, I would pick up a bottle of clove oil from your local pharmacy or natural food store. I like to keep it on hand just in case any of my fish are afflicted with something suddenly that I can't cure. For their sake, I don't want to be without a means to end their pain in case some disaster strikes. Clove oil can be kept in your medicine cabinet and shouldn't spoil for a few years. If she takes a turn for the worse and you decide there's nothing wlse to do, it is much easier to get it over with quickly. I have had to euthanize with more gruesome methods for lack of anything else available at the time and it broke my heart and turned my stomach. I'm only telling you this so you don't have to go there yourself. :#(

In addition to what has already been posted (I like the idea of combined treatment with the maracyns if you can't find kanamycin anywhere), it may be helpful to try EPSOM SALTS. Not aquarium salt or sodium chloride, epsom salts or magnesium sulfate. Some people believe that it helps remove the toxins that are causing the swelling in dropsy, and it is a lot less harsh and irritating than stronger treatments that are out there, and if you're dealing with something like dropsy you need all the help you can get.

Using epsom salts on a horribly bloated betta that I had over the summer extended his life and made his final days more pleasant IMO. He managed to live comfortably and happily as far as I could tell (I got him eating and active again)for 2 months being treated with nothing but epsom salts and specially prepared food. Eventually he came down with severe dropsy suddenly and I thought it best to euthanize him, but I think the epsom salts really made a difference in his condition. Before I started using them with some advice from Gary, he was lethargic and sulky. They seemed to give him a bit of extra pep and his behaviour was better within 24 hours.

A little bit of epsom salt goes a long way. I used about 4 grains of it in a 1 gallon quarantine tank and did 50% water changes every day rather than stress him with a 100% change. I use this method with all of my sick bettas and so far it has worked very well than fishing them out into a cup while I dump the whole thing. Here is a quote about epsom salts from the link LB posted:

"Optional: Adding Epsom Salt to your betta's water is something you can do as an addition to treatment. This may help reduce the internal pressure caused by the swelling. Epsom Salt is made with magnesium, not sodium. Epsom salt does not pass through the walls of the stomach or gills and will extract water out of the surrounding tissue into the stomach, where it may be excreted depending on the level of internal damage that may have already occurred.

Should you decide to use Epsom Salt as an extra measure, know that Epsom salt is made up of Magnesium Sulfate. This does contain one part Sulfa in its make up. If you are using a medication that states it is not compatible with medications containing Sulfa, do not use this as a method of treatment . Dosage is 1/8 teaspoon of Epsom Salt per five gallons of water. If you are working with a smaller tank, measure out 1/8 teaspoon, divide it up into five equal parts. Add one part per gallon of water that you are working with. It will seem very little, that is fine. A little can go a long way. More is not necessarily better.

If you are feeding anything, make sure it is very small amounts more frequently because any constipation could probably kill and the state of her digestive organs is questionable. Another tip I got from gary for treating a fish with bloat was to soak the food in COD LIVER OIL and I have found this works quite well to keep everything lubricated *in there*. Hikari betta bio gold contains magnesium sulfate (epsom salts again) to prevent bloat and is a good choice for sickly bettas IME.

Good luck with her! as I said, it doesn't look good but I hope she makes it.

Okay, will do. I'll keep this thread updated.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Bettas are fragile when in extreme stress or illness... I woould do it every 2 days or so... I don't know if that will hurt the use of the meds or not.

How often should I change the water? I believe the dosing on Maracyn shows going five days before a water change, but would you suggest changing more frequently?

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

I just found one of my favorite girls, hiding in the corner of my community, her scales pineconing. NOT GOOD. She's not bloated, but her scales are definitely sticking out. She's very blah, not moving much, etc. I've removed her to quarantine. I've noticed her being a bit less active the past few days, but didn't think much of it, I just noticed the pineconing today.

I refuse to lose this fish without putting up one heck of a fight. What do I treat her with?

Last edited by Kitten at 07-Mar-2005 09:58

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

I wouldn't...remember her scales are raised. Anything added to the water could burn under the scales (put melafix on an open cut...it burns). Also I am not sure if the pimafix goes with the maracyns. Isn't pimafix for fungus? I haven't found it here so don't know much about it. I would stay with the maracyns and keep with 100% water changes....clean, warm water and meds. Also keep her in a quiet place where she can't be stressed out.

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If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished.

I can crank up the heat a bit if you think that will help... She's in clean water in a two gallon QT tank. I've got the Maracyn mixed up in a concentrate form, so I can dose easily.

I can't believe this has moved so quickly. I only saw her being sort of lackluster for a day or so, and now this. *sigh* I do NOT want to lose her! I'm going to try my best, but I don't know if I've caught it soon enough.

I was so peeved... I called up my fav LFS and talked to one of the most knowledgeable guys there (and he usually gives excellent advice) and he was pretty much like "well, there's nothing you can do, dropsy can't be cured." Dangit, she WILL pull through this! ]:|

My poor Thalia! *cuddles her poor betta girl*

Edit: Would it be useful to add melafix to the mixture or would that just be overmedicating? I was pondering picking up some pimafix, but didn't. Now I'm wondering if I should have.

Last edited by Kitten at 05-Mar-2005 20:29

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Kitten I am sorry to hear about your girl getting dopsy. It can be cured. Gofish had a case of dropsy in the fall. I thought he was a gonner, but a big water change, warmer water, and melafix saved the day. The old guy is still hanging in there, flaring, and acting like the of the walk.

Last edited by pugperson at 05-Mar-2005 20:23

Kitten I am sorry about your little girl. She does have a bad case of dropsy I like the maracyn and maracyn II combo the best but if she isn't showing any improvement in a couple of days it might be too far gone.

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If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished.

I see Daniel used Ruth's article from www.healthybetta.com. Here is the link to the whole page.

http://www.healthybetta.com/articles/Illness%20Diagonsis/dropsy.html


Edit * oops sorry can't spell.

Last edited by Light_Bright at 05-Mar-2005 19:08

___________________________________________

If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished.

Helps if I attach the silly picture!

Kitten attached this image:


~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~