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They bred huh? Well did the female survive? I highly doubt it. I have studied betta nature and tendencys. After the female is squeezed out, the male kills her to protect HIS fry. A 125 is still usually as tall if not in some cases taller.

Don't know why it wasn't in their best interest..they got along fine.

They may have in some odd way have gotten along fine... But does that mean that it was good for them? NO. Bettas in general are an aggressive species toward others of their species. Females are usually fine with others, but you can have some that will always be so non-conformist that they try to prove everyone wrong. MOST of the time, when you have a male that doesn't try to breed with females, it is usually a long-finned female.

OK, BIG DEEP BREATHS everyone.

*goes back and reads entire thread*

OK, a few things to clear up.
They don't live in puddles, they live in rice paddies, which are large expanses of somewhat shallow water. And when i say shallow, i mean about knee-deep. I'll find a picture.
they CAN linve in oxen footprints, but well, its not all that poductive for them to spend their lives in a deep hole-puddle, paddies are much better breeding grounds.

And #2 is that they arent vicious to the point of killing the female after mating (although some definately seem to try!) All the male wants at that time is to be left alone with the eggs. He will drive the female away, somewhat viciously. if the female doesnt go far enough, he keeps at her (this often happens in tanks) but mostly he will just let her scoot off into the rest of the paddy.
What kills them is usually an infection from the wounds.


now, that being said, i dont know if i would be brave enough to try a male in a pond-table. in my mind, its not really large enough if a particular male gets determined. The only way i would try it is if it was very heavily planted.

As for a 125, i'm of 2 minds. Yes, i'm not denying it can be done certainly it can. However, its kind of a bit risky... not so much for the females in my mind, but for the males. See, in the wild, they are far more able to defend themselves or escape, but years of selective breeding have ended us up at a point where the males can only motor with their pectorals, and although they can put in some serious bursts of speed, its nothing compared to the streamlined female. i'd be more worried about damage to the male myself.



[span class="edited"][Edited by Callatya 2004-08-23 21:17][/span]

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

So now you believe she survived, instead of knowing and seeing markings?

I'm still not sure that you aren't confusing my tank and the pond/table?

Talking about the table:
We did see nests. Can't debate any more what we saw in person..and what you are doubting w/out having any actual personal experience in this exact situation. It was a big table for some little bitty bettas imho...so I believe she survived becuase she had plenty of room to get away..and dense plants to hide in. Not something I'd try,or recommend... just relaying what a friend did in an outdoor pond.

Even if the males were non aggressive, they would have still made nests. Flaring is a normal breeding procedure, and is not always aggressive.

If you were there every day, then did u see the nest? Did you see the courting? Mating can take up to 3 days, so I suspect that you should have seen at least 1 or more of these signs. I also am not saying that a baby grew up overnight, but rather that it grew up without you even noticing it's exhistance. How many fry survived? What did you feed them?

Pond/Table. Most ppl don't know what a "water table" is so I did call it a pond. It was a water table holding plants/water. We knew what she looked like, and were at work every day..at least one of us..checking/feeding..so there's no way a baby grew up overnight. You've probably not seen a "pond on a table"..as most ppl haven't. This was in a nursery. It's basically a table, with sides all around..and pond liner..so that it can hold water and water plants (and fish). In nature they also live in shallow rice paddies..so I say a water table/shallow pond is fairly natural.

As far as my tank goes.. One side had alot of current, one side had non. This was a 6ft tank mind you. The butterfly fish went from one side to the otehr..the male betta(s) did as well. But, the betta did favor the plants on the slow side. The males I put in didn't flare or bother the females. Didn't ask the males if they were dissapointed to leave..but figured it better for them to get equal time in the big tank (those that weren't scared)..than all live in small tanks their whole lives. Changed males weekly, or up to every 2 weeks maybe.. Didn't see nest building at all..probably because the males I used in the big tank were very non aggressive. Aggressive males probably would have done more.

Might I ask what markings you saw that could have told you? You say the table was checked every day, but I do believe that you said this was a pond. I have never seen a pond on a table. Also, that was not a natural setting. In nature they live in small puddles. Not ponds. In fact, I do believe that they have been known to live in elephant paw prints and jump from one to the other.

Also, I doubt that all of the fish in that large tank were as happy as they should have been. If there was almost any current in the tank, then the male bettas would have not been happy, and if there was no current, then the butterfly wouldn't have liked it. The females, Im sure, got tired of having new males flare at them all of the time. The males were probably disappointed when taken away. Also, with water movement, the male would not have been able to build a sufficent bubble nest, and probably tired himself out all of the time.

Honest(easy) answers:
The mother had very recognizable markings..for one..Two, we checked the table almost every day. Not all babies survived..but this is nature. When the babies got big enough to see well she took them out.

You're confusing two different situations, also.
I'm not saying what my friend did was "in their best interest". However, it was a pretty natural setting. Much more natural than a tank or cup.
When talking about what I did with MY tank, I do believe it was a great living situation for them. They were very happy fish.

Honest question: How do you know which female was the mother? You don't. How do you know you didn't lose one? You don't. how do you know that a female from the supposed spawn didn't just grow a little? They way that we can tell if something is in their best interest is not to put them in a situation for bad things to happen. That was a situation where bad things could definatly happen at a high rate.

Yes she survived in the outdoor setup my friend had. It was about 6ftx5ft and a few inches of water plus lots of plants (was actually a display for water plants she sold at her nursery).

And, the females I've had in my tank have ALL been short finned.
I assumed it was good for them, as they ate very well..and seemed* to enjoy living in a nice big tank. The plants..the driftwood..etc.
Why is it that I watched them for a year, and they seemingly* did very well.. but you still insist if must not have been good for them? Honest question: if we can't tell our fish are happy by watching them eat well/move about freely/and SEEM untressed and comfortable in their surroundings-how do we assess their well-being?

I want to have a few female bettas in my 125 gal very peaceful community tank. So far, I have one that I quarantined for a few weeks..put in ..and all is well. Another, I got at the same time..etc..but she started looking a bit "big", and I feared dropsy..etc..so I put her back in a 2 cup/cup for awhile. Treating her as a precaution. I now have 6 more females in 2 cup/cups that I am watching.. What is a good lentgh of quarantine time? Would you use something to treat them initially before signs show? Same goes for males..but of course I'm only going to ad one male to this tank. Not all of these females are going into the big tank anyway..I have some small containers-1 gal etc..that a few may go into. Plus, I know they may not all get along.

Don't know why it wasn't in their best interest..they got along fine. It's a 6ft long 125 gal, by the way..not a 55 gallon. Known other people to do it as well in big tanks, and in large outdoor ponds (only during the summer of course) in Texas a friend did this and had them breed.

I don't believe that it was in the best interest of the fish to do that. Also, Bettas like shallow water because it is easier to axcess the surface. A 55 is quite tall to go up to breathe every few seconds.

I read about Jezzebel.. And, I know how some females just don't work out with others..
On the bright side, if she is really showy-she'd make a great addition to her own tank with nothing else. Whereas if she was really plain ..she'd not be much to look at in her own tank..
just my thoughts on the matter.. I've got 2 gorgeous girls in Quarantine..who seem really aggressive. But I figure they'll look great by themselves if need be.. Whereas I have some pretty colorless girls..who would barely show up by themselves..

You can put a male in with females. I've done it before..with many different males. I used to have this as a community 2 years ago, and had a number of females in. Then, I had a number of males in small tanks around the house.. and I'd switch out from week to week..so every male got time in the big tank. Except one, who was really shy..and didn't like being in that big of a tank. The rest were fine. Not saying all males could be ok..but I've had probably a dozen that were. There were also guppies and dwarf gouramies, too.

I, too, would be hesitant about putting a male in with females. Good luck to you if you do try this.

As for quarantining, I quarantined my girls for three weeks before adding them into my existing community of betta girls. One fit in quite well, but the latest addition ripped my girls up and caused two of them to fling themselves into the gravel to get away from her. Both wound up with pop eye and bruising.

Jezebel the betrayer (I rescued her tattered self from my LFS and healed her up!) is now in solitary confinement. Needless to say, I'm not happy with her. Too bad, she's a stunner and would have made a great addition to my tank.

I hope your betta community goes well.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

And u cant keep males in the same tank as females. Even though it is large, he will still get excited and maybe rip all the females apart if they dont want to breed.

I would say 2 weeks to a month. You also will want to keep a close eye on them after they r put in the tank. Females can be as mean as males.

Two weeks is the least amount of time you should wait, most, but not all, diseases will show up during that time period. Just make sure you keep up with your water changes, and they should make it just fine. It's typically well worth the wait in the end. Good Luck!
~FF~

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

2 weeks sounds good to me!