FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Suffered another loss today.... My husband came home to find Ghost had died.... Ghost was the white male Betta that I'd gotten by placing a special order at the my lfs and I'd found him to be the most peaceful male Splendens that I'd ever seen.... He was truly magnificent! Delicately gliding through the water --- Always a loner, even in the 55 gal community tank... Never bothering any other fish mates and never seemingly bothered by them either.... This 3rd death in as many days has effected me greatly... I just don't understand what is going on in my tank..... I did take my water in to Jack's Aquarium and everything was well within the limits.... Why all of a sudden are my fish dying? Now, both Patriot and Ghost had shredded fins when they were found - but the platy didn't have a mark on her!!!!! ??????? All fish appeared quite healthy just prior to their deaths... ?????? Water is fine.... What could this be?????


To thine own self be true...

I am really sorry about your fish.it is pretty grim. i have had a similar thing with my 35G, over the last six months nearly all of my fish died. i have just recently set up the tank again.

in the last month my fish bloated and one especially nasty death invovled blood from the nose and mouth.

although when the fish first died(march/april time) they showed no outward signs of being ill. at all.

a few fish died in the space of a week i did a change seemed ok for a while and then a few more would die the symptoms began to show up, sticky out scales, fin rot, swimming "funny". i tested the water frequently and found no problem there.

also when I kept fancy Goldfish if one of them died their fins disintegrated(sp)very quickly so maybe its the same with Bettas.

the guy my LFS store wondered if whatever disease i had in my tank changed or adapted to attack the fish's immune system, i had neons in my tank and he thought it was neon tetra disease?

its hard when you don't know why they die.evert one told me it was water Quality and wore myself testing and re testing at the shop and at home.

i hope no one else dies.

all the best
GFG

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

Butterfly Fish are usually kept in groups of 3 or more. If it is only 2.5 inches, then it is probably still a juvie, so that may make it less aggressive.

i tryed that in a 10, and mine did fine too, good work though

i have kept males together in 1 tank and they lived peacefully. it depends on the personallity of the fish. i had two short tail males in a 20 with a couple of females.

Wow! I'm sure my old betta would never have tolerated another male, though my new one (Ah-nuld) might.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

You shouldnt keep males with other males, and u shouldnt keep males with females that u don't intend to breed and that aren't ready...

"You shouldnt keep males with other males, and u shouldnt keep males with females that u don't intend to breed and that aren't ready..."

I understand that in most cases, males can't be kept together as they tend to fight ---- but why can't you keep 2 males together if they're non-agressive towards each other? Does this produce problems that I'm unaware of?

My other question is, why can't males and females co-exist if you're not planning to breed? Is it harmful to the fish? What happens?


[span class="edited"][Edited by dreamweaver8891 2004-08-20 20:19][/span]

To thine own self be true...

They might seem to be fine now, but you'll never know when they might change their atitude and go at each other.

I wouldn't take the chance of putting 2 together is it worth loosing 1 or both?

well the dangers of putting males and females together is that the male will want to breed or vice versa and the other isn't ready. The end result of this is that there is huge aggression and they will end up killing each other.

Not always true. Bettas have personalities that vary greatly. I've kept many male bettas in my big tank with a group of females with no problems. It all boils down the the personality of the male(and the females). I may have had one male that didn't work out with the girls..(it's been a year+ since I had that community setup)..but the only male that sticks in my mind is one that was too SHY for the big tank. He was much happier in his small tank. The rest did great with the girls and with various guppies..African Butterfly Fish, Gouramies..Tetras..and plecos and cories. There was no aggression between the male/female bettas. I've not and probably won't ever try males together..but I could possibly see severely placid males doing ok..but who knows for how long? I had a friend who had a few males and a number of females in a shallow outdoor pond during one summer..that bred ..along with guppies. There were tons of plants though. This is a pretty wild setting though.

I honestly shudder to even picture that tank. There are too many combustable elements. The African Butterfly could have torn apart most bettas. If the tank was big enough to hold all of these fish, then it was probably a real tough exercise for the betta to surface every few seconds! You can say "Ohh yeah, it worked!" but that doesn't mean that the fish weren't hurt or distressed.

Well, this is entirely off the subject - and it's even my own topical thread - but Daniel, you've peaked my curiousity when it comes to Butterfly fish.... When we were first setting up our 55 gal tank, my husband spied a Butterfly fish - and just had to have it! So, it has been one of our community fish residents since the beginning... Frankly, at this point we were really being stupid -- not really reading up on compatability, etc. - just picking the first few fish by what we saw and liked... Regardless of that, this Butterfly fish is well established --- but simply doesn't seem to be like the Butterfly fish described in any threads I've read about on this site.... Our Butterfly is QUITE SHY and ELUSIVE!!!! Any time another fish comes close - whether it be guppy, platy, betta or angel - it immediately flits away! Even when we feed crickets, which we do once a week, it quickly swims to a corner of the tank and we more or less have to "herd" a few away from the rest of the "piggies" in the tank and towards the Butterfly or he/she (Don't know how to sex these fish! Sorry!) won't eat any!!!!!! From what I've read, these fish are supposed to be quite aggressive - yet, ours doesn't seem to do ANYTHING! Can't say I have a great interest in the Butterfly --- but then again, I wasn't the one attracted to it in the first place.... But I am curious.... Our Butterfly measures from tip to tail, about 2 1/2 inches... and there is only one in the tank..... Do these factors play a part in the non-aggressive behavior of our Butterfly fish? Is there a freshwater strain of Butterflys that simply aren't aggressive? ???????? I simply don't understand why ours is so "weird"....... although I am greatful that none of my other fish have suffered as a result of our initial ignorance in fishkeeping!

To thine own self be true...

After watching my male Bettas (3 Splendens + 1 Crowntail) for 2-3 weeks, I noticed their individual personalities appeared to have a vast variance.... either very aggressive or very placid... and I began to wonder if this was a result of the Bettas' true personalities or a result of their environments...... Powder (Powder Blue & Red Splendens) and my Crowntail (Still un-named because I just haven't found a name that seems to fit!)reside in a 10 gal tank with divider - having no other tank mates.... Both are VERY aggressive - flaring and shaking their bodies whenever they see each other... Now Patriot (blue and red Splendens) has resided in my 55 gal community tank since he was brought home - other residents which initially included 3 Angelfish (approx 6" or more), female Bettas, and white Mollies among other fish.... Patriot actively swam the tank from one end to the other - but other than a glimpse (and I really mean just a GLIMPSE!) of flaring here and there never showed any agressive traits.... Ghost (white Splendens) was originally housed in my 20 gal nursery tank with about 40 platy fry... Ghost was the most peaceful fish I had ever seen! Even with the babies, Ghost would seek refuge in the cave decoration - did swim and flare occassionally, but pretty much kept to himself....
Well, last week the fry were taken to the lfs and so I sat wondering how I was going to re-arrange my tanks.... and I got to thinking about Patriot and Ghost... Because of their placid natures, I decided to see what would happen if both were placed in the 55 gal tank... So Ghost was moved.... I was on pins and needles originally! Didn't take my eyes off the tank for several hours! Patriot did take notice of Ghost -- came up and flared a couple of times, but Ghost would simply swim away - seemingly unaffected.... and soon, Patriot just seemed to lose complete interest!!!! I'm not sure if Patriot thought Ghost was just another white Molly or what -- ????
Bottom line is, that it's now been a week since Patriot and Ghost became "roomies" and all is going well.... Ghost still maintains a rather solitary life although is seen more than he ever was in the 20 gal (not hiding as much) --- and Patriot, although showing a definite interest in a long finned female I just recently aquired, acts as if Ghost doesn't exist!!!!
So, I'm left wondering ---- true nature or environment???? I certainly don't advocate trying this with all Bettas - but have to admit, I'm pleased with my success! This move, along with taking some of my other fish to the lfs has allowed me to place my paired Angels into the 20 gal - and with the signs I'm witnessing, spawning is in the near future.... Along with that prospect, I truly enjoy seeing my boys glide amidst the others with their beautiful finnage!!


[span class="edited"][Edited by dreamweaver8891 2004-08-20 05:44][/span]

To thine own self be true...

Thanks so much for that information! I had better research this fish indepth, because I believe I was told at my lfs that it wouldn't grow much more than about 3 inches!!!!!!!!

To thine own self be true...

Pantodon Buchholzi, or African Butterfly fish..are not nearly as aggressive as they are made out to be. They can get up to about 5"-6" from what I've ready...I've had them get about 5"(without counting fins) personally. You really just need to worry about anything being even close to small enough to fit in their mouths. That is because they will TRY to eat things that may not fit..but still hurt them enough to kill them. For instance, guppies. Anything bigger than that I've not had them bother..but rather, they retreat from larger fish. They are very susceptible to attacks from below ..so they must be kept with peaceful species, or species that will at least leave them alone. They are territorial with each other and need a good deal of surface space to get away from each other. I have photos of my male/female African Butterfly Fish that I can show you, they are actually very easy to sex. Being total surface fish, for the most part..the only time I've seen them venture down it was due to fear (tank cleaning/feeding)..and they were oblivious to other fish while "down". 2.5" inches is young, I'm jealous! The ones I always find at LFS are 3.5" (w/out fins).

It was my 6 ft long tank. The bettas don't surface "every few seconds". The only factor that really didn't work were the 3 Spot Gourami varieties. With each other. I'm posting links to pics of my pair of ABF in General Freshwater for you to see the difference in the sexes, and if anyone wants to further the ABF discussion.

I too have kept this species. They ARE very aggressive. They may retreat from fish larger than they are, but anything smaller (like a betta) they will attack.

Also, if your bettas do not surface every few seconds, then they will end up dead. Labyrinth fish can drown. They simply can not get enough oxygen through their gills.

I have had plenty of labrynth fish and know they can drown *if they cannot get the the surface*. You make it sound like they are constantly going up, and they don't have to do that. I don't know how many butterfly fish you've had..or how long you've kept them, but from those who've kept them for years and with a variety of fish (that I've talked to), including myself...they are not that aggressive to other fish. Unless you are talking about tiny baby bettas, or very young (guppy size or smaller) I've not had probs with keeping them together. Obviously, anything guppy size and smaller is at risk.

Even if the fish are bigger than guppys, it doesn't mean that the butterfly wont take a nice chunk out of their side.

I'm going to back up Daniel on this - the Butteflies I've kept and those at the store I've been working at are all quite willing to go after anything their size or smaller. I definitely wouldn't trust them around a betta, and especially not a male that might not be able to escape as quickly. We house them with big gouramies and loaches at work, nothing small or slow.

-Molly
Visit shelldwellers.com!

Just think it's odd that I've done it ..and seen it work..and you're against it without any experience.

Without any experience!? Maybe you should read back a few posts .