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Hello everyone

I am having an issue with my male fry/juvie tank. I started the tank (10g) and put the appropriate amount of the BIO-SPIRA in to instantly cycle the tank, that was about a week ago.

Yesterday I found four dead juvies in the tank. I tested for amonia and for some reason it was between 0.5 and 1ppm. I immediately put some ammolock in the tank and did a water change.

This morning there was another dead juvie, and two other of the juvies have red spots on them. Gills also look redish on them.

Any advice in the manner is very appreciated as I would hate to keep loosing my male juvies. Thank you!

Edit: Also I have been dosing with a little of primafix and melafix due to an outbreak of "fungus" in the fry tank I had moved them from. I have since ceased this because of the issues I am having right now.

Last edited by ~jamie~ at 31-Mar-2005 07:47

Jamie, have you done the water changes in order to try and reduce the ammonia? (stupid question but thought I'd ask)

I've never actually bought the Bio-Spira, but here that if it gets out of the temperature range that the bacteria will die, perhaps this is what happened...

What I use I get at PetSmart in the Pond section...I can't think of the name just off hand, but it's a big white bottle (duh)...I think it cost about $10...It says Bacteria Starter on it...great stuff and it has always cycled my tanks quickly...also don't forget the stress coat...

Hopefully you can find this same stuff at your PetSmart, I'll post the name and picture of it this afternoon, when I get home...do a water change now though it can't hurt and use the stress coat as your dechlorinator...

Heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Jamie - sorry about the losses.

I have used it extensively and have learned that stocking needs to be light and you will not likely see any ammonia. At the most 0.25, but even that can be too much for fry and some adult species.

BioSpira is best used at 1/4 max stocking level. I used it with three 2.5 inch goldfish in a 36 gallon tank and never saw more than 0.25 ammonia that I caught on the morning of day 2, and it was gone by evening. Never saw any nitrite at all, and got a nitrate reading (about 3.0ppm) on day 4. I didn't dose BioSpira until about 6 hours after they went into the tank to make sure there was something for the bacteria to feed on. By day 9, I got a good reading of 10ppm nitrates.

I just used it recently to end cycles in my 2.5 and 3 gallon betta tanks despite the use of NIC and Fritz-Zyme 7. Neither of those prevented ammonia or nitrites in a low waste betta container. But they ended abruptly with the addition of BioSpira.

I have also used more than required. The smallest packet I believe is for a 29 gallon. I use the entire packet in my 20 gallon or 10 gallon. I usually split it up for smaller tanks.

What kind of filter are you using in this tank?
So, I'm wondering how stocked is your tank?

Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Mar-2005 11:33

Heidi, yes I did a water change as I mentioned in my first post.

Cory, it is stocked well, there are probably now like 15 small juvies. I thought that this Bio-Spira was like God's gift to cycling a tank but it seems that it is not as good as I thought. *sigh* Well, you live you learn, I am just sad to have lost my babies over it. :#(

In the old days, we would put 1/4 stocking level of cycle-hardy fish into a tank and wait 4-6 weeks for the tank to cycle. During that time the ammonia, followed by nitrite would soar to lethal levels for some fish.

Contrast that with the same 1/4 stocking level where the cycle ends in 4 days and the ammonia and nitrite never climb any higher than 0.25.

See the difference? I don't think that Marineland even claims it will cycle a fully loaded tank in 3 days. It is a miracle product and can't say that I would trust Cycle or any other product to yield as good of results as that. I've tried them several times only to be disappointed and getting BioSpira to do what the others couldn't.

I'm still curious - what kind of filter are you using?

Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Mar-2005 17:43

Well, I guess I just assumed since it says on the container that it cycles a tank in 24hrs, that it would do so, I did not realize you could not have a full load, which I really don't think I have. I cannot at this time remember what kind of filter it is, I just remember it came as a kit with the tank. I'm sorry about that. I know that it surely does a better job I guess than anything out there...it's just not what I expected I guess. Maybe my expectations were too high. I do appreciate your insite, I will just have to be more careful.

- I should have told you why I wanted to know about the filter.

If you have a type like Tetra Whisper where they have "bio-bags", you can give it a real boost by putting a handful of seeded surface gravel from another tank (and we know you have other tanks ), into the biobag. If you have a cartridge like that with BioWheels, simply cut the back open (the blue floss), remove the activated carbon and put the gravel in there. You can always sew it back together with cotton thread if the gravel won't stay in.

See what I'm getting at?

Also, with all those tanks you have running, get a sponge filter running in one or two of them. If you buy several of the same kind, you can get a new one set up in a fry tank real quick and pull a FULLY seeded one off of one in an established tank. I keep one running in my 20 long, my 36 gallon bowfront and my 10 gallon. I like the extra biofiltration, but in a pinch, I can yank it out and put it in a spare tank for instant seeding.

I use this style which I can hide behind a plant in the corner, either in dual or single form. It's the second one pictured, next to the daisy.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/4919/cid/1339

Nothing better than a sponge filter for a fry tank. They can eat the microscopic life off of it too.

Here's a FAQ on Bio-Spira where it responds to people who have low levels of ammonia or nitrite (< 2ppm). Keep in mind, I saw nearly 8ppm ammonia during the normal cycling process with 5 white clouds.

http://www.marineland.com/cus_faq.asp#60

Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Mar-2005 19:55

Thank you Cory and that is a good idea putting gravel in the bio-bag, never thought of that. I do also have now sponge filters in the tanks that I had in the goldie pond for pre-cycling purposes. Thank you for the link, I should have read more about it other than just reading the package. *sigh* lost another this morning.

Thank you again, you have been most helpful.

With those sponge filters, if you get a bunch of replacement sponges, you can leave the structure in place and grab a seeded one out of a tank and put on a fresh one for seeding as you need them. As you can tell, I sponge filters

I got the idea to put gravel in the biobag when I had to quickly transfer 5 habrosus cories to an unseeded, 10 gallon tank. This was a very small load - like 2-3 white clouds based on their overall size, so it was perfect for a bag of biospira. But, I didn't want to spend the money and was testing Fritz Zyme-7. So, I put a handful of gravel in the bag, poured Fritz Zyme into the filter so it would seed the bag, and still ended up with 0.5 ammonia a few days later. I then moved a seeded sponge that was not even the right length into that tank and bought a packet of biospira to be safe and it ended very abruptly.

If I've learned one thing about BioSpira it is more effective if you add it about 6 hours into a cycle, with about 1/4 max load. It is not as effective once the cycle is under way and will take time, hence, the reason I decided to use a seeded sponge filter with it. When I cycled my 20 long with the stuff, I didn't find it until I was already well into a heavy ammonia load (old-fashioned fish cycling). The biospira just didn't seem to check it at that point, but I had also added Ammo-Lock 2 previously, which may have rendered the ammonia useless to the bacteria. I wait 6 hours so that there is some minimal ammonia, even tho it may not be readable, before adding. But, as I described above, my goldie tank was a perfect example of how well it can work, when used as directed.