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I never see endlers sold in my lfs, but they are usually in the feeder tanks with guppies. The only problem is that you are not allowed to pick your fish.

They're not Endler's, or if they are they've hybridized with guppies.

Wild-type guppies, like common guppies, like feeder guppies (all the same thing, basically) look very much like Endler's. The two species are very closely related and even icthyologists have trouble telling them apart without DNA testing.

And, I hate to say it, but people who buy wild-type guppies thinking they're Endler's and sell the fry as Endler's are the main reason true Endler's are disappearing in the hobby. Please never, ever assume any fish is an Endler's. There are probably a few million guppies for every Endler's in the world; 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of the time, a fish that looks like an Endler's but isn't labelled is a guppy.

Wild-type guppies are very pretty on their own merits, in any case, and well worth keeping.

-Molly
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It's ashame, but you really probably can't tell. It could possibly be Endlers, but I'm willing to bet it is more of a wild guppy/feeder guppy that they have in the tank. I know one of the lfs here has something similar, but those are labeled as feeder guppies...But, if they strike your interest go ahead and get them and enjoy them, they can be just as beautiful if you let them be...heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

they are under bluk guppies by me. i wouldn't say they are real endlers.

Not to sound ignorant, but what's the difference? If the fish look alike, act alike, and are practically the same even to a genetic scale, then who cares? Personally the "fake" endlers I've seen in the bulk feeders look just like the "real" endlers that I've seen labeled as such. I'm sure with the right care, the guppy could be just as much as an "endler" as you want it to be!

The difference is that Endler's are disappearing in the wild, and if people cross the two, sell guppies as Endler's, and don't maintain true strains, Endler's will be extinct in a matter of years. That's one more species my kids won't get to keep, and I'm not willing to stand idly by and let that happen.

-Molly
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In the 3 tanks full of rosy red feeders at the lfs there are what look like endlers. They have the multicolored spots along their tails like endlers do and they are definitely livebearers... Is there anything else they could be or are they really using endlers as feeders? It's a dozen fish for $1 and I've been looking all over for endlers so if they are I'll just ask for a dozen and then sort out the endlers from the rosy reds.

I doubt many of you guys that bought feeders have endlers. As Molly said, the chances would be one in a million. They look similar, but are not one in the same. This point is debatable, as they haven't been fully described as a new species yet. It is in the works, as far as I know.

Tiny, as far as I know, you can't "breed the guppy" out of them. They are one species, or they aren't, but it doesn't shift.

DJTJ, I doubt the endlers you buy in stores are wild-caught. What would be the point in that? They breed easily and readily, and are obtainable from many endler breeders. Therefore buying them doesn't have any impact on the few, if any, left in the wild.

Because the 2 fish are so similar, it is our duty NOT to interbreed them. They are going extinct in the wild, and pretty much exist only in our tanks. They aren't going extinct because of collection for the hobby, but because of various reasons- habitat destruction and pollution for example. We have got to keep the lines pure for future generations of enjoyment, and possibly of reintroduction into the wild. If you breed a cross that is somehow mistaken for a purebred somewhere along the line, whether it is your fish or its offspring, you are responsible for the extinction of a wonderful little fish.

There is nothing wrong with keeping feeder guppies. There is nothing wrong with keeping endlers. However, mixing guppies and endlers is a foolish, careless, and ignorant thing to do.

---

They shade the glow of it with their mossy-misty costumes,
They wear masks of silk, porcelain, brass, and silver,
So as not to mislead with their own, ordinary faces.

Ok with that posting of the pictures of the "supposedly wild endlers" i apparently have a few of them then!

72 gallon bowfront:Tanganyikan Lake set up
75 gallon: A. Baenschi trio,Cyanotilapia Afra Cobwe(4), copadichromis trewavase, protomelas sp. tangerine tiger(breeding pair)

I was wondering that too. Last week I got the snakeskin and lyretail guppies I ordered online and I was wondering what would happen if I crossed them with the feeders I bought. I think though out of the 14 fancy guppies I got I also have all females. A couple are too small to tell but so far none have color and their anal fin looks female except 1 of the feeders. He started out with 2 red spots and has now added a large blue streak from his tail up most of his body. If I'm right I have 27 females and 1 very happy male.

Last edited by sham at 18-Jul-2005 19:52

http://members.cox.net/newcomb1/elb_collage.jpg

Original site here

Quick question: Has anyone ever crossed fancies with the wild/feeder type? Are they hardier? How different do they look?



Last edited by katieb at 18-Jul-2005 19:28

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

can someone find a picture of a real endler and post it on here please?

72 gallon bowfront:Tanganyikan Lake set up
75 gallon: A. Baenschi trio,Cyanotilapia Afra Cobwe(4), copadichromis trewavase, protomelas sp. tangerine tiger(breeding pair)

They look similar to that not identical markings and color though. The one I saw today had a huge streak going all along the bottom of it's tail. Unfortunately out of 14 fish I think I got all females

I bought my Endlers as Feeder Guppies about 2 years ago and have let them breed indiscriminately ever since... I even went back about 3 months after my first purchase to get another bunch to mix up the gene pool a bit.

Lately I have been raising males that look so much like the pictures I've seen of "True" Endlers that I really assume the Guppy part is being been bred right out of them!!!

I've never sold any though, and if I give them away it's always as feeders or dithers or whathaveyou.. They always seem to get eaten too quickly and/or are returned by disgruntled ex-friends who begin to hate their amazing breeding ability..

I'd say the main reason for their being endangered is the destruction of their habitat in the relentless pursuit of land development, not interbreeding by naive hobbyists. If two types of fish can interbreed closely enough that DNA testing is needed to tell their offspring apart from the "True" strain, then wouldn't that be good for the native communities of Endlers? If most hobbyists are only interested in having fish that are 'close enough' to the original then we would be able to leave the wild populations alone to continue their survival as they see fit. Well, if we could get land developers to stop filling in their watery homes that is....

Whichever way you feel, if you like the look of the fish and you are comfortable with the fact that they are most likely not "True" Endlers than go ahead and get them for your tank. If not, then you can find a few places that will sell you supposedly "True" Endlers on the net, although I've yet to see one that sends pedigree papers along to prove it...

L.

Last edited by littlecatjoe at 13-Jul-2005 21:09

Development and such in the areas they come from; there was an article about this not long ago in TFH.

If the fish in the original post looked similar to this it's generally called a wild guppy, which is not an Endler.



Theresa_M attached this image:


~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is water at the bottom of the ocean

how did they get endangered anyway

~elaine~

Actually I just like the pattern(or splotches) Although they might be nice with more blue... I asked so I'd know if they could be pure endlers or whatever else. Also I don't understand why they'd sell such colorful fish as feeders Even on the tiny little ones I can see their color standing a few feet away. Grown up a little bigger and in a nice sized group they could be pretty.

Last edited by sham at 13-Jul-2005 00:22

It's important incase they buy the fish, breed them and then try to sell the offspring as something they aren't.

I once emailed Mr Endler about the feeder guppies before and he said they are not the same thing, that wild guppies look similar, but that they could be a mix of the two. Even if they are mixed they shouldn't be called Endler's. The main difference he stated between them is that Endler's tend to come in specific patterns whereas the guppies are more random splotches.

Last edited by castlequest at 12-Jul-2005 22:29

Unless sham is interested in breeding and/or selling endlers (as far as I know from this thred) I doubt him buying fake endlers will make any difference in the natural polulation. Besides, it is a good thing that the guppies are replacing endlers, because it means that there will be less taken from the wild. The only way I see Sham doing bad by buying a fake endler is if she plans on breeding them and introducing them to the wild. If this be the case then I understand your point. Otherwise, I really don't understand what the hype is about "true strains". If they are so endangered, than don't buy them!

Last edited by djtj at 12-Jul-2005 21:59