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So Nate, How did you get so lucky? Please tell me. I would love to hear you story.

From the beginning....

Background: It was almost a year ago and a girl from here started asking me questions about setting up a SW tank. Thats what started the friendship (hang in there, the reason Im lucky will emerge, I promise!). Anyway, after constantly talking about tanks, life in general, etc, we became very good friends....to the point that we could finish each others sentences

This last April I sold my house and bought a different house. I started planning a 240g cube. I didnt want to have to chose what to stock the tank with so I asked this girl to make me a stocking list because we both liked the same things, and had the same interest...a SPS dominated tank. I told her that I would use the stocking list that she created....so she started putting it together even though she thought I was crazy for trusting her judgement

Thats a summary of how Im lucky....If it wasnt for her I would be scratching my head wondering what I was going to stock the tank with Now I just need to get it set up, but Im still about $2000 away from having all the equipment for it

That girl not only made the stocking list, but she is also the one that kept me in this hobby when I was having rough times (tank crash....then another tank crash with 100% loss when I moved).

Thats the story

Thanks to the girl *cough* Liana *cough* I have the stocking list, the tank...and Im stil here posting

Well, isn't that awesome that it worked out liek that! I am glad for you however I am a bit jealous! After all the questions I have been asking I have a feelign I am goign to have to postpone my 55 set-up for a bit. I am going to continue everything but I am going to take longer to buy it all see how expensive things like lighting are going be. I will probably end up upgradign my tank size as well lol.... gee who woudl have thought that would happen! Not me! This will be good and bad all at the same time. This means I can get a few other larger fish that I have wanted but have steered away from because I knew my tank was too small. I am going to probably end up with something over 100 gallons when I get read to set it up. I am goign to continue with all of my plans but this only means I no longer have a tank for these guys anymore if I want something bigger I know I am but I think everyone around here might just be a little bit like that if ya know what I mean lol. I will probably use my 55 gallon for a FW tank now I haven't decided yet. I have always wanted angels maybe I coudl get them now this also edits my fishy list as well. I will be adding a Regal Tang to the mix as well!!! This makes my list

2 Amphiprion percula (Black Onyx Clowns)
2 Gobiosoma oceanops (Neon Blue Gobies)
2 Cryptocentrus cinctus (Yellow Watchman Gobies)
2 Paracheilinus filamentosus (Filmented Flasher Wrasse)
1 Paracanthurus hepatus (Regal Tang)
1 Amblygobius rainfordi (Rainford's Goby)
1 Pseudochromis Fridmani (Purple Fridmani)
Some various inverts


I am trying to learn some of these names so please don't think that I think that you guys do not know.
Please feel free to edit or discourage me away from any of these that you REALLY think I should sty from. Thanks


Christina

Dont use the common name Regal tang...as it's incorrect.

I'm assuming you want the blue hippo tang, otherwise known as the Dory fish from Finding Nemo.

Regal tang is going to make people think you're talking about the Regal Angelfish, a very prized and difficult fish to keep.

So from now on, hippo tang.

Anyway...

I really think you're at the point where you should stop focusing so much on the stocking, and focus more on just getting your tank set up, because without your tank running, you cant even fathom adding fish. Besides, no matter how much you focus on a stocking list, it WILL change by the time you get your tank set up. There's always going to be something else that you find that you like better, or something that you find that may not be available to you.

Focus more on getting your equipment together, and on picking up some books that will expose you to more about this hobby, and the animals we keep in it.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

And yes, foxfaces do get very large, but I still think they're very cool. Especially the rose one. And plus, who doesn't buy a tank resulting in the ultimate urge to constantly upgrade?

some of us dont have room to upgrade any bigger....Unless we buy a different house, and Im not wanting to do that quite yet considering I havent been in this one for a year yet.


Another fish that stays pretty small (3in) is the Chalk Basslet....in a small or large group they are a very interesting fish to watch......This fish is one of my favorite fish just because of their behavior.

some of us dont have room to upgrade any bigger....Unless we buy a different house, and Im not wanting to do that quite yet considering I havent been in this one for a year yet.

there's ALWAYS room to upgrade Nate...okay, I got rid of a couch so I could get a big tank Not sure how I pulled it off, but I did, so my point is proven. And you aren't really the one who needs to upgrade in this situation, because this isn't your thread


Another fish that stays pretty small (3in) is the Chalk Basslet....in a small or large group they are a very interesting fish to watch......This fish is one of my favorite fish just because of their behavior.

I CANNOT BELIVE I forgot this fish. It's one of my favorites too, and something I seriously considered for my tank awhile ago. I know for a fact that [link=http://www.marinedepotlive.com]http://www.marinedepotlive.com" style="COLOR: #3c4e82[/link] usually carries them, if anyone cares to take a look.

What about the sunset dottyback? I think I made that common name up...i'll have to look for the sci name later, when I actually wake up. >.<

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

Hey anyone out there that is jsut REALLY bored and would want to come over and take me out to get all the SW supplies I would need to start up a SW tank? No?... Darn!

Well then can I get everyone to pitch in and give me some ideas? What are your favorite SW products? I wanna know whats the best and the worst from everyone PLEASE!!! I REALLY want to start up a SW but I need your help!
What would be the best size tank for a beginner SW aquarist? 55 Gallons sound ok? Should I go bigger? Should I go smaller? I would really liek to not go much bigger than 55 gallons though. I have seen 60 gallons, that woudl be ok but thats abotu it. I REALLY want a Clownfish, a yellowhead jawfish, some neon gobies, and whatever else you guys think woudl go well in a 55 gallon tank. I do not have anything yet because I want to do it right! Please help me out!!!



Christina

Book 2....dont know when it will be out, but I will ask him when I talk to him next

Ohh good. Please do!

I'm not sure I even finished the first one all the way through now that I think about it...I concentrated more on the parts regarding SPS and clams.

pssstt...nice ava

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

shame on you for not finishing it! Geesh

No! I did finish it...I just skipped parts that didn't interest me, so I could pay more attention to the ones that did. For example...I dont really need to know how to build my own coral greenhouse...gimme a break I'm 16. You gotta give me props...how many other 16 year old girls do you know that even have HEARD of that book, more or less own it, or have read it?!

...

Yeah that's what I thought.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

True, I do have to say that you have poured a lot of time and energy into researching...but finish the book! The whole book is good, and you find something new and interesting in it all the time. Ive read the whole book probably a dozen times and still find stuff that I didnt catch when I read it before.

Another book that is a good read is Ultimate marine aquariums by Paletta.....Its only interesting to see how varied a successful tank is set up and ran.

Now that gymnastics season has wound down, I might actually have some time for free reading. I'll think about it.

I haven't finished the reef notes series yet, I'm about half way through. I love Sprung, his writing is so comical.

The last book you said...I dont own that one. I see a new addition to my library. I'll order that later this week.



-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

Ok, I took my first major step. I purchased a 55 gallon aquarium on Ebay. I also went an bought the Dummies Guide to Salt Water Aquariums. I heard this is also a goo dbook. I could not find the books you suggested yet, but I will keep looking. I have always been fascinated by fish, especially SW fish. After reading the first 2 chapters of the book last night, it was late I made myself stop because I knew I had to get up and come to work in the morning. I have decided on a FOWLR tank. I didnt not even know what this meant until last night I woke up and it hit me in the middle of the night. DUH! Anyway, I have some ideas on some fish so far. I will not actually start up the tank until a few months from now I want to make sure I know enough to start. Like I said before I DEFINITELY want clown fish. I would really like to have a jawfish and some neon blue gobies as well. If anyone has any suggestions or objections on my choices please let me know now, or forever hold your peace . Eventually I woulf like to add a few inverts but after reading that book I decided I do not want to take on too much at one. I would love to have an anemone for my clownfish as well. How much LR do I need for a 55 gallon tank? Like I said I am going to plan ALL of this out before I even start so I just need to make some lists.
BTW Thank you for all your help so far!


Christina

I would love to have an anemone for my clownfish as well.

Then plan on buying metal Halide lighting(read as $$$$$). Anemones need a great deal of lighting to do well in captivity.

How much LR do I need for a 55 gallon tank?

As much as you can afford. You can't really overdo live rock, unless it starts to take away from the actual volume of water. A very general rule is about a pound per gallon. This doesn't apply to very dense or very porous rock, however. I first purchased 30ish lbs of LR for my 30G tank - then ended up buying another 15 or so lbs. because it still looked empty.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Will the clownfish be ok without an anemone? Don't they need them to make a home? What else could I use for that besides an anemone? Do they live caves or anything like that? I am VERY new to the "Dark Side" I am trying to learn.

As for the LR i will proabably just start with 55 lbs and see how that looks then add more after I get an idea of how it looks. Matty your tank is AWESOME looking. I hope mine looks that good when i get mine up and running. I am planning on having a jawfish just like yours in my tank.
I will probably start a post when I start mine up so you guys can help me out some more. Please keep the information coming!

By the way, I forgot to mention that I did read the post on starting up a marine tank thoroughly before i made the final decision to go for this. I am looking for the books you suhhested in this post and a few some other people suggested in other posts.


Christina

Would they live in a cave? I guess what I am trying to find out would be, do they have to have something liek coral, which I am not planning on having anytime soon or an anemone or a cave or something else to live in, or can they just live in the water without that stuff?



Christina

Clownfish don't need anemones to thrive. In fact, oftentimes captive-bred clownfish will refuse to host in an anemone. They do not recognize it as neccesary for their survival. Wild clowns cannot live without a host anemone, but clownfish are typically not in danger of predation in a fish tank. An anemone-less clown will sometimes take a coral for a host, but other times they'll just find a non-living refuge to call home.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Thank you Nate.

May I recommend that you also look through [link=http://www.saltwaterfish.com]http://www.saltwaterfish.com" style="COLOR: #3c4e82[/link] for some ideas on fish. They usually have a lot of colorful guys around.

The best book you'll ever find, for the ID and care of saltwater fish, is Scott W. Michaels "The PocketExpert Guide to Marine Fishes." It's like the Bible. I wont buy a fish w/o looking it up in there first. I met Scott in person, and he's a very educated aquarist who has some fantastic photography skills as well.

And yes, foxfaces do get very large, but I still think they're very cool. Especially the rose one. And plus, who doesn't buy a tank resulting in the ultimate urge to constantly upgrade?

I believe I commented on the special care of jawfish several times. The pearly jaw is one of the coolest fish I've seen, I wish I could have one.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

Very good post Liana

The Foxface is a great fish, but would need to be transfered to a larger tank before it reached its adult size of almost 10 inches...In a 55g tank it wouldnt leave it much room to comfortably turn around.

Have a look through http://marinedepotlive.com/. They have a lot of species and their profiles, while not in depth give a good guide on what would work in your tank based on size of the fish, size of the tank, water quality, and experience levels needed to keep the fish.

1-2 Yellow Head Jawfish
1-2 Yellow Watchman Goby

Putting both of these sand dwelling creatures into your tank might cause some problems with territory. Myself, I would go with a pair of Blue spotted jawfish if it was my tank. Also remember that with jawfish you should have a substrate of 6 inches depth minimum, with different substrates mixed so they can build their burrows....sand, crushed coral, oyster shells, and some smaller pieces of live rock rubble. Without the mix,their burrows wont be sturdy and may cave in on them

Last edited by DarkRealm Overlord at 05-Nov-2005 18:08

Some ideas...! For stocking:

A cool looking, hardy, and largish fish (that also has venomous spines, but its okay I promise) are foxfaces from the rabbitfish family. They're a great beginners fish, and make a nice display IMO.

Another fish I really like, and I think you will too, is the blue/green reef chromis. This is a schooling fish, so the smallest number you should have is 3. They're usually very sweet, have great color, and are very hardy. I think they'd be a great addition to your tank! Cheap too.

Another smallish fish from the damsel family I like is the Talbot damsel. That's the common name we use at my work, idk if it's the most common common name in the trade though. They're pink and yellow, and very pretty.

The sixline wrasse is another cute little fish, bursting with color. They love eating pods and little reef bugs off your live rock. I would make this fish one of the last additions to your tank.

Have you considered any of the dwarf or pygmy angels? The coral beauty and the flame angel are some really pretty fish, that go for reasonable prices in most places. Angels aren't always 100% reef safe though, so if you're thinking about corals...

Some common and cool inverts I'd look into are sally lite foot crabs, emerald green crabs, blood shrimp, cleaner shrimp, coral banded shrimp, brittle stars, serpent stars and snails. Google some of these, or find them in a book. They're all pretty hardy providing you can give them the proper tank conditions.

If you end up getting corals, you're going to have to make sure the lights you purchase for the tank are strong enough to support them.

HTH a bit...




-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

The Neon Gobies: I jsut really like the way they look, then again I also like neon tetras, and cardinal tetras. I guess I just like those little delicate fish.... Go figure. I am going to research all these guys as soon as I finish researching the tank set up itself. Like I said, I am COMPLETELY new to SW tanks. I am sure that there are other fish that I would be interested in, I just haven't found one that "floats my boat" in a matter of speaking. I also know that the neon gobies are cleaner fish and would be good for the tank and other fish in the tank as well. That is another reason I wanted them. I was going to put some inverts and such in the tank but I found out thats a little more difficult than I thought, so I decided to stick with a FOWLR tank for right now. I am sure I will end up putting something like that in there in a few months. I really don't want to do too much at once and screw things up. I have a tendiency to dive into things without checking them out first and I do not want to do that this time.
I will definitely be researching all the fish I plan on putting in the tank so no worries baout that. Is there another fish you suggest that would be better than the Neon Gobies?
I know this is really a lot of small fish in a big tank, but I figure that would be the safest way. Plus I jsut really like these guys! I like lots of smaller fish in a larger tank. That is just the way I am. I do that with my FW tanks as well. In my 25 gallon I am going to have 2-3 schools of smaller tetras in there and a school of cories.... I am having some trouble with my FW tank at them moment so I am trying to fix things before I go any further.
Would I be able to put any more fish into this tank eventually? I would like something else liek the clowns, maybe a different type of clown? Is there another type of fish that actually swimss around since I have the goby and the jawfish hangin around in the sand and the little gobies swimmin around and the 2 clowns swimmin around. What else could/should I put in there? Eventually I want to add some coral. I really like the mushroom polyps and things like that so please keep that in mind. I also want to add maybe a starfish(depending on how difficult these guys are to handle, I haven't looked into them yet) and some other inverts liek snails and some shrimp. Is there anything you think would be good to start with in these categories?



Christina

Neon blue gobies just never fare well IMO. They're so tiny, delicate and fragile when they come in...half the time they never make it, and even if they do, you'll almost never see them in a four foot tank, so why bother?

Why dont you pick something else that you'll get to see a little more? Are you interested in any other fish?

And have you done your research on jawfish?

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

I am looking for his books still, I saw one today at an LFS i went to today but the book was like 35 bucks. I am going to look on half.com or somewhere like that.

BTW I think I have a list of the fish I want in my tank

2 Black Onyx Percula Clowns
2 Neon Blue Gobies
1-2 Yellow Head Jawfish
1-2 Yellow Watchman Goby

Any suggestions on this list?
Any Suggestions on anytihng else for that matter...



Christina

I would still recommended Calfo's books. You can buy them online for a good price at Amazon.com He's the God of this hobby, and the only person I'd venture to call an expert.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

Ok, I have Saltwater Aquariums for dummies. What do you guys think about The Idiot's Guide to Saltwater Aquariums?



Christina

I can't wait to see what your tank looks like. I am looking at a few websites for tanks that are predrilled. I will let you guys know what I do as soon as I find out.


Christina

[link=http://www.all-glass.com/]http://www.all-glass.com/" style="COLOR: #3c4e82[/link]

Go to products->aquariums->twinflow/megaflow



-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

That is where I looked. Do you know how much those tanks run? I REALLY like the 95 gallon Wafefront, but I don't think they have the megaflow. I can't seem to find a price anywhere on them though


Christina

It varies from store to store. You cant get the prices online I dont think. You'll have to call dealers and stores around you to get the prices, compare, and see who has the best one.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

Good News! The LFS where I ahve been looking at tanks and such sell the All-Glass aquariums. The 90 Gallon Wavefront that I want comes from this store. I am sure they will have a tank with the Megaflow that I want. I am SO excited! They have some of the BEST prices I have EVER seen! Hopefully the tank that I want has the overflow all ready *Crosses Fingers*
I will let you know as soon as I find out!!!


Christina/:'

Cool. Ninety gallon wave tanks are pretty popular, so it makes sense that the manufacturer will be able to offer them in predrilled versions. Good luck with the tank.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

I foudn one that is 90 gallons and has a lot of stuff in it.
Right off the top of my head I know it has a canister filter. some artificial plants, which I won't be using! It alson had a light hood, um, I can't remember much more... oh yeas very importantly, it has a stand and hood for the top. It is priced at 600 bucks for this, however it is for a FW tank as far as I know, I did not think to look for an overflow. If it does not have one I am sure they can get me one for jsut a bit more. I also have someone to build me a stand for my 55 gallon FW tank, so if necessary I am sure he will help me figure out the other stuff too. I am really getting excited! I think things are going to work out after all, even though it is going to take longer than I though to set it up. I am okay with how long it is going to take though because I know I can't do ANYTHING until I get ALL my supplies anyway.

Dang, there I go ramblin' again :%)


Christina

Well, I looked at the tanks at the LFS and they didn't have any that were predrilled, atleast not that I liked. I think I might looking into getting that 90 Wavefront anyway and just get an overflow box instead of drilling it. I don't think I will find what I want AND be able to afford it. I found one rectangular 90 that has a sump, pump, stand, and MH lighting for $1000, but I think it was used. It looked really cool because the stand was black and silver, but $1000? I don't know if it is worth it. What do you guys think? If not, then I will have to keep looking I guess. If I could even find one without a stand that would be fine because I know someone who will build a stand for me. He is going to build a stand for my 55 gallon as soon as I give him the dimensions. Well, let me know what you guys think about that other tank, please!


Christina

$1000 isnt that bad of a price at all.....think about it this way....

Tank $300
Stand $300
Sump $300
MH depending on brand/setup $300-$900

Everyone I know that uses a HOB overflow box hates it and wishes they would have got a Reef Ready tank with the built in overflow....the problems that come with a HOB can get frustrating.

Well, I guess I will have to think abotu this one then. Even though it is used you think it would be worth that much? I really did like this one because the stand that comes with it looks really nice as well. The guy who showed it to me said that part of why it was more expensive is because it is made with thicker glass than most of the tanks. The overflow is in the middle of the tank instead of in the corners or on one side of it too. I was really wanting a cornerflow tank, but now that I think abotu it, I was thinking abotu arranging the LR in the corners of the tank instead of in the middle... hmmm ... I will see if I can round up that extra 400 bucks for it then. They have a 125 that has the light, stand, sump, and pump for $1650 and it is brand new lol... j/k Wouldn't that be great to be have as your first reef tank. There might ahve been one other tank I was looking at as well, I can't remember. I looked at so many yesterday...


Christina

What are the odds that the LFS would be willing to come down on thir price any? I thought maybe I could talk him into knocking about $100 bucks off. What do you think? Should I see if they are willing to come down on price?


Christina

Bump!!!

I guess it doesn't hurt to try now does it...

Nate's right though, with the way he put the pricing.

I spent over $600 on just my lights.
About $200 on my tank.
About $50 on the overflow kit.
About $50 on the sump tank.
About $30-$400 on the stand/skirt.

And another couple hundred in plumbing parts.

So they aren't really giving you an unfair deal.

Last edited by Ferretfish at 26-Nov-2005 19:31

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

Well, I guess I will see if they are willing to put it or one like it on "layaway" for me until I can pay it off. Hopefully by that time, I will be moved and ready to start the tank. I am going to work on my 55 gallon for now until I can get enough for the 90. If by chance I can't get that one they have a few other ones that are really nice. They are also bigger. Well, cross your fingers for me lol.

If I do get this one it comes with the light the sump and the pump and it is predrilled, so what else would I need to complete it after that?


Christina

why not see if they will throw in delivery and install into the price

We use to do that for customers at the store I worked at if they wanted it...as long as they didnt want it plumbed to the basement