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After a few years of freshwater fishkeeping I think I'm finally going to drift into what some call the dark side. I have 2 55 gallons on a double stand that I would like to turn into a saltwater tank and sump/refugium on the bottom. I have done a little research, although I still have a long way to go. I'm going to go the fowlr route with maybe some live coral down the road. If anyone has any setups for a 55 gallon sump/refugium that would be great. I'm still pondering what I would like to keep, I'm somewhat interested in lionfish. I know most of the bigger species won't fit so I'm thinking about the dwarf fuzzies. I'm not sure what other tankmates will work and if I could keep more than one, but I do know most inverts and anything smaller than them won't. Any suggestions comments or concerns are welcome and hopefully we can figure something out.

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

I'd get the tank drilled for an overflow. Having a hang on back overflow for the last couple years has worked because I take good care of it, but drilled tanks are much better aesthetically.

I also like mag drives as return pumps because they seem pretty indestructible. I'd just try to get a few baffles in between the drain pipe and the return pum p in the sump to reduce microbubbles getting back into the tank. That and they help create a refugium area.

As for fish, you basically answered your own question. Most fish that are simply too big to be eaten will do well with a lionfish. I haven't seen many fish willing to mess with them. I'd do some research, see what you like and post up questions when you have them.

Welcome to the darkside.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Welcome to the SW side. FOWLR is a good way to start. I am more of a peaceful community tank. Make sure if you do have a predator tank that you do have extra filtration as they are messy eaters.

The tank is finally up and running. The current setup includes: 80 pounds crushed coral, sand, seaclone 150 protein skimmer, mag drive 1200, 1200 gph overflow with aqua lifter pump, baffles, pvc plumbing, ~3 foot pvc spraybar, 2 stealth 200w heaters, emporer 400 filter, 2 flourescent light strips(will upgrade somewhere down the road) and a filter pad in the baffles. During the setup I found out why rinsing crushed coral is a good idea before adding, it is still a little cloudy after 3-4 complete water changes. With multiple trips to Lowes and an hour or two later I finally finished all the siliconing and plumbing. Any questions comments or concerns so far with the setup? Hopefully I have all the basics covered so far.

As far as what I plan on keeping I somewhat drifted away from the lionfish idea because of the limits on tankmates. I plan on cycling the tank with 3-4 damsels(possibly the 3 stripe damsel) and some live rock. Would any other fish and/or inverts do well in a cycling tank?

Here's a pic of the tank http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g230/spooke03/0822071908.jpg

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

Instead of cycling with the damsels can I suggest a more humane way to cycle. Please read this. BTW nice tank.



http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=15

I have decided to cycle the tank with LR. I'm going to add fish after I have all the live rock and the die-off is done. I picked up an interesting piece(about 20 pounds) and two small pieces(about 2.75 pounds total) from a lfs. Would adding a raw shrimp or two be pointless or harmfull? I know the die-off produces ammonia. I'm planning on getting the pieces as I find ones I like or maybe try ordering some online, which some places are a lot cheaper than the lfs here.

Anyone had any luck getting LR online? Any sites to recommend? I found this site to be pretty cheap http://www.intmarinefish.com/liverock.html.

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

I bought all my LR from my LFS but if it has enough die off it should be sufficient. Also if you buy already cured LR then you might not even see a cycle. Keep us posted on the progress.

It wont hurt to stick a piece of raw shrimp into a nylon for easy removal. Even if the rock is "cured" you would stil benefit from causing a cycle because your bacteria level will be elevated and you will take less risk of causing a cycle when you start to slowly add your livestock

I'm currently at ~50 pounds of LR, some of which was cured, some curing, and some uncured. I still haven't added any fish yet, I'm going to work on getting the live rock peices I like and cure them in the tank first. I'm still unsure what I will end up keeping as well.

My original plans were to alternate the peices to the fuge area to keep pods and what not populations healthy, but I didn't think about the 3-5 inch gap between the two tanks. Would LR rubble be good to put in the fuge and serve any beneficial purpose? I can fit it in there and it is a lot cheaper than the bigger pieces.

I do need to get a new test kit, any suggestions on one to get?

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

I now have a cycled tank and am still left wondering what I want to keep. I really seem to like gold stripe maroon clowns, what would be some tankmates that would go with a pair of these? I'm also fond of orange lyretail anthias and symbiotic goby/shrimp pairs would these work? I'm open to other suggestions and seem to like a lot of the other common choices at the lfs. Thanks in advance.

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

There should be many choices for you. I'd just add the clowns last as the maroon clowns can be bullies.

If you are looking to get anthias, you need a group of one male and multiple females. Therefore despite what some books say, these aren't great choices for a 55 for the most part. If you do go after a group of these, make sure to get some that won't get up to or over 4 inches. Something like the Bartlets anthias.

There are many wrasse, pygmy angels, gobies, and blennies and such that will do well for you in a fish only with LR. If you go for a reef in the future, you'll want to eliminate pygmy angels from the list.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I agree with Matt that the maroon clown needs to be last. Acording to LA the bartletts need a minimum 55 gallon tank. Here are mine to see what the look like. Maybe some green chromis would be good.

http://www.fantasyreef.com/album/details.php?image_id=621

Wow, those are some pretty fish. Would 4 bartlett anthias, a pair of gold stripe maroon clowns, a yellow watchman goby pair with a pistol shrimp, and a cleanup crew work? If so what order should I add them to the tank? Will the anthias sort out their genders amongst themselves or will I need to get them all the same age or something along those lines? I have read getting a bigger and smaller gold stripe clown will work best to get them to pair, any experience there?

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

Anthias are sexually dimorphic, so be sure to look at pictures and get one male and a few females.

The order I'd add them in would be LR>cleanup crew>goby/shrimp>anthias>clowns.

I'd allow some time between getting the goby and anthias. Make sure the water quality is very good. Let the anthias settle in and then get the clowns.

Clowns are best purchased one noticeably smaller than the other.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

That sounds like a plan . I will probably add a little more live rock (currently 61 pounds in tank and 13 pounds of rubble in the fuge). I plan on getting a package deal on the cleanup crew, which is almost half price than if bought seperate. I'm still going to make sure to take my time between additions, I remember reading somewhere that only bad things happen fast in saltwater. Thanks for all the help btw and I'll keep you posted.

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

Yep, slow and steady wins the race. Can't wait to hear how it goes for ya

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

You said it. Only bad things happen when you go fast. I`ve been gradually working on my tank for 10 yrs now. As Matt said, Slowly but surely.

It's been a while since I posted so I thought I would give an update. I added a cleanup crew about 2 weeks ago, from what I remember theres 15 hermits(red, blue, and zebra leg assortment), 2 scarlet hermits, 10 or 15 astrea snails, 10 cerith snails, 4 bumblebee snails, 2 fighting conchs, and 1 sea cucumber. I went with one of the package deals at a lfs and they didn't have enough of some of the items so they substituted for them. They all seem to be doing well although I did lose one astrea snail, found it upside down and it didn't move when I turned it over.

After letting those settle in for a week I bought a pistol shrimp and then a yellow watchman goby the next day. The pistol shrimp is doing fine and rearranged a lot of sand to make a burrow at most of the bigger LR pieces. I see it doing its work at night and it doesn't seem to mind the light in the room being on while I watch. Do they setup a permanent residence at one place in the tank or will he switch burrows all the time? He was back at one of the old burrows cleaning it out, maybe he will choose that one.

I haven't seen the watchman for a two days. It might just be that I haven't found it's hiding spot as the pistol shrimp made plenty. It swam around a lot at night for a couple days, maybe searching for a place to call home. Hopefully he is still in there somewhere and I checked the floor as well, there's a lot of saltwater fish that seem to be jumpers. Only time will tell if he pulled through.

As far as the LR goes I'm still amazed at what I have found. The list so far: 2 snails, quite a few bristleworms, 3 clams, tubeworms, 2 small starfish, a red/brown mushroom looking thing, apistasia anemoni's(any suggestions for getting rid of these, the only ones I found are in the fuge area), and others I still need to find

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

My favorite method of getting rid of aptasia are peppermint shrimp. They demolish aptasias and are IMO as good looking in their own right as other shrimp. More sturdy and active too. Great scavengers in general. I'd get 2-3 for a 55.

As for the watchman, I hope you've seen him by now. If not maybe check at night with a weak or red filtered flashlight. He's probably holed up in your LR somewhere, and by the sounds of it, there's probably enough life on your rock to support him for a few days until he's settled.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I haven't seen the goby still . I will keep my eyes open and it wouldn't be the first time I see fish long after I ounced them goners. I saw the pistol shrimp moving from LR to LR yesterday, he is doing well.

I did get a peppermint shrimp and added him to the refuge area two days ago. He seems to wander around at night and chills on the bottom side of one of the LR pieces. He has taken shrimp pellets since the addition and seems to be doing really well. He has colored up nicely since the acclimation too. I read they will clean your hand if you stick it the water, which I found to be quite interesting. I stuck my hand on the side of his rock and he came over and started picking at my fingers. Afterwards I fed him a shrimp pellet out of my hand. He seems soo trusting for being such a little guy, but I guess it's what he does.

I will probably add a couple more peppermints to the top tank and I have a fascination for inverts. I went to a great LFS recently and they had a blue and a gold coral banded shrimp. I really like these and cleaner shrimp as well, maybe it's their loooong antennae that I find so interesting. Would either one of the two be a good addition and be compatible with a couple peppermint shrimp? I would think the pistol should be ok with them as long as they stay out of his burrow.

Hopefully the goby turns up soon, I would the pistol shrimp to have a friend .I may get another some time next week if theres no sign. Thanks again for all the help, I would hate to see where I would have ended up without you guys.

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?