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My 55 gallon has cycled, and is finally ready for plants. I have planted (though lightly, and in a very disorganized manner) my two smaller aquariums, I really want to go for it with this 55 gallon.

The aquascape currently consists of a cave and smaller piece of driftwood (which will both be covered in a little bit of Java Moss). Substrate is a layered mix of Eco Complete and Sand Blast Media. I plan to hunt for some slate or river rocks as well. I have about 2.5 watts/gallon, no CO2, and don't want to go too heavy.

My current plant list consists of:

Narrow Leaf Chain Sword (10)
Anubias Nana (3)
Crypt Wendtii Red (1)
Crypt Wendtii Bronze (1)
Crypt Wendtii Green (1)
Rotala Rotundfolia (3 bunches)
Anacharis (2 bunches)
Ambulia (3 bunches)
Corkscrew Vals (10)

I'd really appreciate any comments you might have on this list as far as quantities (am I over, under?), the plants themselves- if they'll work, or if there is something else you think might be better, design, anything that comes to mind. This aquarium is my first really serious attempt at creating something great, and I want to get it right (or as close as I can!)

Thanks!
Kari

Kari,

Before I even get into the details on the plants (which, btw, I believe you may be good for the back, but short in the middle and front), do me a favor and answer some questions:

- Who came up with the idea to cycle the tank and then plant it? IMHO, that was a waste of time.
- How do you invision this layered substrate to work out. I believe the sand would fall between the Eco, compacting that whole substrate, and create a big mess (but I don't have such a setup, I am only guessing).
- Do you plan to create what is called a heavy planted tank or only some plants here and there?
- How high is the substrate?
-What do you know about plant fertilizers?

Some thoughts:
- It would be good to find some nice hardscape (woods/rocks) first as these elements tend to define what plants would go well with it and where and how they should be arranged.
- Can I assume you have the AGA 2x55w fixture? What is the wattage in the bulbs (I think to remember it was 10,000K, not the best range for plants).

That's enough for right now,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo,

To answer your questions:

One: I didn't decide on cycling the tank before planting it, it just happened that way. There are a list of reasons, but since what's done is done, there's no point in discussing them. When I'm as experienced as you are, I know I'll be doing things differently. But, since I am new to the hobby, let's cut me some slack, ok?

Two: The layered substrate was an idea given to me by someone who's done it in several aquariums. It's been sitting for almost two months now, and is still as sandy and light as it was on the day it went in. No compacting. The substrate is 4 inches.

Three: I don't want a very heavily planted tank because I don't want to get in over my head, but definitely didn't say that was planning on planting lightly; that's not my goal with this aquarium. I just want to do something that looks nice, is easy for a beginner to manage, and also creates a natural space for my fish. I have a Coralife Aqualight with two 65 watt, 6700K bulbs, which are nice for the types of plants I want to stick with. I just need to know if the plants I am looking at will grow well in my tank, and if I need to adjust my quantities.

Four: I do plan to find rocks, and place them before the plants arrive. I own a landscape design company, so I have access to everything. Not a problem there.

Five: I don't know a lot about plant ferts, but have used Plant Gro in my other aquariums.

So, maybe we can discuss plants now.......

The plants on your list are fine. All very easy and capable of doing well in your set up.

As to whether there's enough, hard to say until you see how you place them etc. But I would say no, it doesn't sound a lot for a 55gal. It's always best at start up to add a lot, even it's more then you want and then thin out remove some when the tank has stabilised and the plants are settled and growing.

With that light and no Co2 you will need to be careful. Using Flourish Excel will help a lot to keep problems at bay or at least follow a good non-co2 routine. I'll dig out a link to Tom Barr's non Co2 methods. It will help you a lot.Plants will be fine - the main issue with good light and bo Co2 is algae, but that too can be avoided with a good simple routine.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

But, since I am new to the hobby, let's cut me some slack, ok?

Kari,

It sounds like you took my questions as an offense, but that was not my goal. I am sorry about that.

Basically, I wanted to avoid that you have to become experienced to find out what works and what not (btw, I am not all that experienced myself). I have seen quite a few people starting their first planted tank and some of them had a rather frustrating experience. This turned them off and they gave up on planted tanks. This should explain what you listed as "One".

To "Two" : Substrate heights seems great, that should give you enough for any plant to root. My concern with regards to sand over Eco is that you basically cannot vacuum the substrate anymore as I would assume it will start to mix. Also, if you should ever have ground burying snails (chances are good that they will move in with the plants) then they would mix it up. As I said, I don't have this type of layered substrate and I am only guessing.

"Three" : As bensaf points out, you are having rather strong lighting over the tank and without CO2 (or Excel) you run the risk of algae more than you would on less light. Planting more plants will actually cause you less problems than otherwise, the additional plants will help avoiding algae.

"Four" : Awesome, you should then really not have any problems finding some nice rocks, just make sure that they are inert, meaning don't leak anything into the water column that would alter the parameters.

"Five" : Try to read up a little on plant needs in terms of micros and macros. A good start would be to skim through the various logs here.

"So, maybe we can discuss plants now....... " - Yes we can . And like bensaf, I believe that you probably should get some more plants. In particular get some fast growers like Wisteria and Water Sprite (maybe even Star Grass) to get the tank settled quicker. Once your plants grow healthy you can switch from fast growers to plants that you would like better in their place. This means that the tank in the beginning will not look exactly like you envision it for the long run, but it will help avoiding problems on this road to success.

Hope this helps, and again - no offense,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo,

I understand that you meant no offense, as I have spent a lot of time reading through your logs in the forums. Your choice of words came across as mildly condecending at times, and I took the opportunity to be a pain in the butt when I replied.

I understand that there is a lot of trial and error involved in this hobby, and I am still (what I would call) a beginner. This is my first large aquarium, first time trying out a non-traditional cycling method, and first time having a plan in mind. I feel that I've learned enough to (at least) avoid very serious mistakes.

I appreciate that you have my best interests in mind, but I have done so much reading, and much less "doing", that I am ready to just start on the "getting things done" part of it. There's only so much information I can absorb before everything starts to mush together!

I do need help with this, that's why I'm here. I don't have a lot of personal preference when it comes to the plants, as there are many nice plants that would grow well in my tank conditions. I do want to know if something on my list may not work out so well, and would like to know if you can suggest any other plants that you think would work well in addition, or in place of, something on my list. I do need help with quantities, so please make suggestions. I don't want any plants that may need C02 to look good, so let me know if that is an issue. I am nervous about putting Wisteria in the aquarium, only because I've read so many stories about people having a hard time getting it out.

The sand blast media in my substrate is not sand, it's more like very fine pea gravel. I don't know why it's called "sand" on the bag. I can't gravel vac the substrate, and it's because the Eco Complete is very sand-like, not the other way around.

I'll be sure to do all of the proper testing with rocks, and will boil them before they go in the aquarium. No worries there.

I'll also read up more about ferts.

Thanks-

Kari

I took the opportunity to be a pain in the butt when I replied

- Sounds fair to me

So, with regards to the plants you selected: I think your list in the first entry is fine and will do well without CO2, although there is no doubt that all plants (on and off your list) will do better with it (in particular with 2.5wpg). If you plan to substitute with Flourish Excel (carbon source) then be warned that Anacharis (Egeria Najas and Densa) are sensitive to this stuff and frequent dosing of it can lead to these plants melting away.

I never had problems with Wisteria removal in my tanks so far and I strongly recommend using loads of fast growers when you start the plant thing. Nanas will grow extremely slow and don't help you settle the tank, the crypts will most likely melt before they grow back and then also continue to grow slow. Vals also need some time to settle in, but afterwards will create runners that will invade the rest of the tank if you don't keep a close eye on them (also, the Sword will create below surface runners that can be a pain in the neck to take out). Rotala and Ambuila are fast growers, but by far not as sufficient in uptake than Wisteria and Water Sprite (or the ugly Hornwort, for that matter).

If I think back to my initial order of plants for the 125 and how many of them are still in the tank today then there is not much left. For that reason I will most likely jam my soon-coming 40G with fast growers, even if it will destroy the visuals of the tank for the first few weeks (and believe me, it is hard for me to go that route).

thanks for the explanation on the sand blast stuff, now I understand it a little better. Also, you reminded me of Eco and vacuuming, this will come in handy for my new 40 as well, thanks for that.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo,

In all of the reading I've done, I know that it's best to have CO2, especially in a 55 gallon aquarium. The only reason why I haven't explored it as a real possibility is because I am feeling overwhelmed by all of the newness of this project, and my brain is already in overdrive.

So let's talk about CO2. I already know that I'd rather get a kit, rather than put something together and probably botch it up. What are your thoughts on this kit?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9935&N=2004+113779

If this is no good, then what do you suggest? Is it best to go for a fully automatic kit in the long run?

Thanks-
Kari

Planting more plants will actually cause you less problems than otherwise, the additional plants will help avoiding algae

I agree. I didn't do this in my 55g. I only planted a few plants in the beginning..fast growers to get me through the cycle. The higher light + low plant mass = algae. I found that out the hard way...and a year later, my 55g still has an algae problem. Its not nearly as bad as it was, as now I have it moderately planted...but its still there.

I worry about the Ambulia. I have some in my 55g now with the same light. If you spread it out enough, it should look ok. Give it full light and don't let anything shade it. Some of mine looks great. The tops of course look great...but some of the bottoms are leggy (not bushy like its supposed to be) and collects alot of algae and "stuff". I have thought about pulling it out...but don't have anything to replace it with at the moment.

I find that Myriophyllum does better, but still not great. In full light, it won't get as leggy.

Another stem plant to consider is Bacopa Caroliniana. It is a fast grower that IMO looks nice. It covers up a filter intake or heater very well.

The Anacharis in my 55g also gets leggy. The tops look like they are supposed too, quite bushy. But the bottom leaves spread out. It grows though...and quite fast. Be careful with the Excel. I add Excel to my tank maybe once a week (when I remember) and it doesn't suffer. I don't know how often is safe.

I would add more Crypt Wendtiis to the list. They make a nice midground plant when you line up a few of the same color.

Corkscrew vals didn't grow very well in my 55g, but I had them in one of the back corners and I don't think they got enough light. Place them near the middle and they should grow fine.

I am certainly not an expert...but I thought I'd give my 2 cents!!

Good luck! I will be looking forward to seeing the results

*Kristin*

Thanks Kristin, I was hoping that you might post something, since we have similar set-ups.

Are there ways to try to prevent an algae problem without having CO2? I'll plant as heavily as I can right away, with some fast growers in the mix. What about fish? Should I fully stock the aquarium over the next couple of months? Would that make any difference?

I seem to remember that earlier this year you were thinking about doing CO2. Have you? Should I start without, then think about doing it later (when I have more experience)? What's your opinion?

Thanks for the tip on the Bacopa. I've actually looked at it quite a bit, but wasn't sure if I had enough light for it to do well.

Would Crypt Spiralis or Balansae work as a background plant in my aquarium? They are slow growers though, aren't they? Maybe something for later on?

Thanks-
Kari

Tell me if these quantities still don't seem correct.

Narrow Leaf Chain Sword (10)
Anubias Nana (4)
Crypt Wendtii Red, Green, Bronze (2 pots of each)
Rotala Rotundifolia (4 bunches)
Bacopa Carolina (3 bunches)
Water Sprite (1 pot)
Java Moss (1 ball)

Thanks-
Kari

Kari,

My 2 cents again :

Narrow Leaf Chain Sword (10) - do you plan to use them as foreground plants? They can get rather tall. Under the right conditions they can grow over 15", but 6" is not rare.
Anubias Nana (4) - fine, will look good when grouped together
Crypt Wendtii Red, Green, Bronze (2 pots of each) - nice
Rotala Rotundifolia (4 bunches) - nice
Bacopa Carolina (3 bunches) - starts off a little slow
Water Sprite (1 pot) - I prefer Wisteria, albeit water sprite seems to grow even faster, but in either case, get at least 2 pots
Java Moss (1 ball) - 1 Ball? That sounds scary, because what is usually referred to as a moss ball is actually not Java Moss, it is a form of algae. Otherwise, if you mean one bunch then that would be ok, you could tie it to rocks and wood.

Again, make sure you are covered with fast growers, the crypts and anubias don't fall into that group (and java moss will not help either).

About the CO2: At some point, almost all of us looked at the option you linked to from the Drs, and I think one or the other may actually use it. But if you are in a ruch (let's say within the next two weeks) to set up the plants then I suggest you wait on the CO2 for later as I would like you to understand the implications fully before buying stuff

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I suggest you wait on the CO2 for later as I would like you to understand the implications fully before buying stuff

I agree. I have read alot on CO2 lately, but not enough yet. I also don't have the money...that's why I haven't taken the plunge yet.


Make sure the Chain Sword is the Pygmy type. I have it as my foreground plant and its only about 3 inches...maybe 2.5. Mine didn't spread that quickly. I don't think enough light is getting to the front. I would up the number to around 15 plants...just so it can spread out evenly.

The rest of the numbers look fine to me. I have Crypt Retrospiralis in my background and it is really slow growing. I wouldn't get it unless you had CO2 (which would make it grow a little faster). I have the ambulia in front of it because I had no place for it and the crypts are shorter than the ambulia. Doesn't do much for the design (well i don't really have a design).

Are there ways to try to prevent an algae problem without having CO2

Plant as heavily as you can....and dose Excel. I would use it probably twice a week. Only keep the lights on for about 10 hours...invest in a timer if you don't already have one (they are great!!...just got me 2 about a month ago).

If you can find it Hygro Polysperma is a fast growing plant...maybe too fast at times though. Alot of people don't like it. I've seen it in aquascapes that looked really good though, so I may try to find some.

I'm tired of the look of my current 55g, but trying to focus on getting the new one setup. Then I can mess with the old one. I'm going to plant heavily from the beginning, using Eco, and getting everything growing before I add fish. Hopefully I will like the turnout of this one more.

Good luck with yours!

*Kristin*

Thanks for your help. I placed my order this afternoon:

Pygmy E. Tennelus (20)
Anubias Nana (4)
Crypt Wendtii (2 pots Red, 2 pots Green, 2 pots Bronze)
Rotala (4 bunches)
Bacopa (3 bunches)
Wisteria (2 pots)
Java Moss (1)

Tomorrow I'll do some checking around for nice rocks or stone. I found some beautiful black and white granite at work today......

Kari

Are there ways to try to prevent an algae problem without having CO2?

Yes there certainly are.

Here's a link to the best article available for non Co2 methods. Follow this and you'll have very few problems.


http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395

With regard to fish, better to add very slowly, if you can bear it keep the bare minimum for the first few weeks and then add more.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Many thanks for the link, bensaf.....very helpful!