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Did you buy generic dry ferts or go with the flourish line? List the ferts you have by name and we can calculate a good routine for you.

Also your KH is quite low (17.9 ppm = 1 dKH), you'll want to raise that before you add any CO2 to keep your pH from crashing. You'll want between 3-4 dKH (about 53.7 - 71.6 ppm, most test kits tend to measure in ppm). You can raise KH very easily and cheaply with plain old baking soda.

One teaspoon of baking soda added to 50 L of water will raise the kH of the water by approx 4 dKH.....So a bit of quick math - you want to raise the KH about 2 dKH so that makes 1 tsp / 100L. Let's assume 70g actual water volume in the tank. 70g = about 265 L. So you want to add about 2.5 tsp of baking soda to get your KH to about 3 degrees.

Add 1 tsp (dissolved in a cup of tank water), test your KH (should be showing just under 2 degrees or 35.8 ppm), wait a bit to give your fish time to adjust to the change in pH (maybe 30 min-1 hr) then add the other 1 1/2 tsp and test again. At this point your KH should be up to 3 degrees. Your pH should also be sitting at 7.0 with the added baking soda as long as the amount of CO2 you had in there when you tested before is constant.

Right now at 1 dKH your CO2 is sitting at 9 ppm, quite low. When you get the pressurized system you'll want to aim for about 30 ppm. So if you keep your KH at 3 degrees using baking soda, you're aiming for a pH of 6.5.

Don't worry too much about the low nitrate, it's easy enough to raise with chemicals.

You could grow any species of vallisneria in that tank, they do well in low light without co2. As I said, you should be able to grow almost anything you want in that tank if you're patient enough as it will grow slowly.

Do you think I could get by growing Corkscrew Val, or is my light too low? Maybe another type of Vallisneria?

Thanks in Advance!

Last edited by fishnewbie at 03-Sep-2005 21:18

No problem.

I just like to see more people getting into plants. Showing people that are new to them just how simple it can be with a bit of planning can go a long way in furthering the hobby.

Besides, once your plant tank is looking great you can pass your knowledge on to others.

Perfect tryst!!!

Thank you so much for your help!! I owe you big time!

I mean I can't put in words my appreciation, lol. Really, I don't know what I would've done without you. *hugs*




Last edited by fishnewbie at 30-Aug-2005 09:30

We're not going to hate you, it's totally fine to go with lower light. I would personally get as close to 2 wpg as you can (without going too far over, but ideally you want about 1.5-2 wpg) if you want to go that route, it will really give you more flexibility when choosing plants. Non CO2 tanks work well, you just have to remember that everything will grow much slower without CO2. There are advantages and disadvantages to this. First of all, it will be less maintenance and a good introduction to plant keeping. Some disadvantages are that you may have trouble growing really exotic plants and that your plants will take much longer to fill in to give the tank a really established look.

So a few tips:

Read this article!!! http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395
It's one of the few I've read that actually puts any thought into non CO2 tanks.

Plant really heavily to start. You want to plat at the very least about 75% of the area of the substrate. With non CO2 tanks I think it's even more important to pack the tank with plants to limit algae because you can't count on them to fill in quickly.

You should be able to grow your Ludwigia if you mean the common Ludwigia repens:



(From Tropica's site)

Less frequent water changes. Using excel you will still want to do some water changes but 50% weekly isn't required. I personally do about 25% every few weeks on non CO2 tanks, just enough to siphon around the substrate a bit. That should be enough for your tank. If you want to do more you can increase the frequency and do weekly water changes of about 25%. On a non CO2 tank with Excel water changes are not *that* important in my experience. You can do them weekly or even once every month or 2 without any problems. Some people like to do water changes more frequently when dosing Excel but I haven't found it makes much difference with anything.

Using Excel, you won't need to add baking soda at all because it won't alter your pH. Excel is a source of organic carbon instead of CO2 gas, short explanation is that excel is basically inert and won't mess with the acidity of your water so low KH is fine.

I've calculated your dosages based on Tom Barr's article (and what I dose on my own non CO2 tanks) taking the Excel into account.

You'll want to add:

1 tsp KNO3
1/2 tsp K2SO4
1/8 tsp KH2PO4
1/4 tsp Plantex CSM+B

(approximately 10 ppm NO3, 12 ppm K+, 1.5 ppm PO4, 0.3 ppm Fe - I added more traces than I dose personally because your hardness is so low!)

Dose this once a week - 2 weeks. You will probably want to dose your macronutrients (KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4) on a different day from the Plantex because dosing them both at the same time may cause a precipitate to form in the tank. I've done it because I was curious, it does happen. The precipitate clears pretty quickly but it's better to dose your macros and micros on different days to avoid it.

So for example your routine could be really simple:
Monday: 25% water change (doesn't have to be every week)
Macros
1 tsp KNO3
1/2 tsp K2SO4
1/8 tsp KH2PO4

Tuesday: dose Micros
1/4 tsp Plantex CSM+B

Excel according to bottle (I would dose about 1.5 tsp = 7.5 mL daily, 2 tbsp + 2 tsp = 40 mL after water changes).

That's it. [/font]

Last edited by trystianity at 29-Aug-2005 22:32

So... any help?

Okay, I know you guys are gonna hate me for this.

I've decided to have more of a low-light setup (for the time being anyways). I just don't have the money right now to afford a CO2 system and my mom really doesnt support the idea.

So until I get a job or something, I'm gonna stick with this(I'm only 15 after all). I'll save this thread for sure though, so I can refer back to it later.

Could you guys recommend any fert dosages for this lower-light setup? I'll keep dosing Flourish Excell for sure. Should I add some baking soda so that the Excel could be fully utilized, or does it not put that much carbon into the water? I see no numbers on the bottle...

Also, Do you think I could still grow Red Ludwigia? I really like the looks of it.

Thanks for everyones help! I really DO appreaciate it!

-FishNewbie

Appreciate the feedback, Tom,(especially liked how you specified exactly what to do!)

The only thing I'm slightly concerned with (in everyone's advice) is the 50% weekly water changes. Isn't that a bit much?

The pH difference in my well water and tank water would almost surely cause the fish to go into pH shock. I've done a large water change like this before, and that is just what happened. (The difference is about .5 or .4 in pH)

Or are the big water changes just required when ferts or CO2 are used?

Last edited by fishnewbie at 26-Aug-2005 22:07

Once you get CO2, make sure you have enough.
Check it often, then dose the above, 1 tsp KNO3, 2-3x a week. 1/8 tsp KH2PO4 2-3 a week and add about 15mls of traces 2-3x a week. If the GH is less than about 3, add some SeaChem Equilibrium, about 1 tsp or so after the water change.

Do weekly 50% water change and that's about all you need to deal with other than pruning etc.

If you have a hiogh fish load, using 3/4 tsp or so of the KNO3 instead.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Thanks a lot bensaf!

Well I guess that's all I'll need to do until I get CO2...

How do I know how much will give me 10ppm of nitrate and 1ppm of NO3 and phosphate? I read the artcle.... but it seemed all to complicated.

Do I just estimate and test or what?

You can find a downloadable dosage calculator here http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm
Download onto your desktop and it'll work out whatever you need.

For your tank 1 teaspoon of KNO3 will give you 10ppm of Nitrate , 1/8th of a teaspoon of KH2PO4 will give 1ppm of Phosphate.

BTW NO3 = Nitrate.PO4 = Phosphate.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

How do I know how much will give me 10ppm of nitrate and 1ppm of NO3 and phosphate? I read the artcle.... but it seemed all to complicated.

Do I just estimate and test or what?

Last edited by fishnewbie at 25-Aug-2005 12:09

No need to add the baking soda until you get the Co2 system. Other then as a buffer for the Co2 the KH has no real bearing on the plants health.

Get the nitrate up to about 10ppm with the KNO3 and Phosphate to 1ppm. Thereafter small weekly doses of micros and macros should be enough.

Once the Co2 is up and running immediately changes to daily dosing with macros and micros on alternate days.Large weekly water changes - about 50%.

With light, good Co2 levels and plenty of ALL the nutrients (you have a complete set now) the plants will go nuts and algae will be a thing of the past. Algae simply can't compete with healthy plants no matter how much nutrient is the water.

Last edited by bensaf at 21-Aug-2005 21:43

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I got the dry ferts.

I've also been dosing with Flourish Excell. Keeping lighting at 130 watts.

Here are the ferts I got:

KNO3 - Potassium Nitrate (Potassium, Nitrogen)
KH2PO4 - Mono Potassium Phosphate (mostly Phosphorus)
K2SO4 - Potassium Sulfate (Potassium)
Plantex CSM+B with extra Iron (trace/micronutrients)

Should I start dosing baking soda now, or wait until I get the CO2 system?

Last edited by fishnewbie at 20-Aug-2005 20:56

Last edited by fishnewbie at 21-Aug-2005 20:25

I've got a 90 gallon tank(2 feet deep) with 260 watts on it. Brings it close to 3WPG. No C02.

Here are the plants I already have:

2 Amazon swords
1 Water Sprite
2 Java Ferns
1 Water wisteria
Java Moss
sorry I don't know scientific names...)


1)Do you think can my tank grow MOST plants or does the deepness offset the WPG?

2)If not, could you recommend some plants that you've had good experience with that would work in my setup? Could I grow Moneywort? I'm also looking for a good foreground plant.

3)Do you recommend I get a CO2 system, or is that just to speed up plant growth?

4)Any recommended fertilizers? (I have virtually no experience with ferts...)

I'm hoping to get more nitrate suckers to prevent this cyano and algae I'm getting. I already have a water sprite floating, perhaps I'll get another to grow in the gravel...



Last edited by fishnewbie at 05-Aug-2005 21:14

Allright, finally got my computer back!

I've got all the ferts you suggested along with test kits for Nitrates, kH, and pH.

My Nitrates are 0, or close to it! (Yikes)
My kH.... was like 17.9. The water turned lightly yellow after just 1 drop.
My pH was about 6.5

So I guess I'll check out that estimative index and be on my way.
I have no clue what to start out dosing. Need to read that article.

Thanks for all your help, trystianity.

Last edited by fishnewbie at 20-Aug-2005 16:33

Last edited by fishnewbie at 20-Aug-2005 16:35

New question: What plants do you personally like, that would work well in my setup? (When I get CO2 and ferts)Perhaps some reddish plants?

With that setup you should be able to grow just about anything you want.

Check this site out:

[link=http://www.tropica.dk]http://www.tropica.dk" style="COLOR: #36af30[/link]

Some reddish ones that I think would be easy for beginners (feel free to try more difficult plants, you should be all set with all of the advice here but these ones are pretty much failsafe):

Rotala rotundifolia (goes kinda pink under high light with a lot of ferts)
Alternanthera reineckii ''roseafolia''
Cryptocorynes
Any of the red Echinodorus (swords)
Hygrophila polysperma "rosanervig" (sunset)
Ludwigia repens

These are just a few really easy ones. If you like a plant, try it out! Don't worry too much about them being hard to grow too much, as long as you make sure their needs are well met you shouldn't have any problems growing just about any plant you want. If your budget can take it, buy a good plant book and see what you like.

Take a look at aquascaping contest entries, browse around and see what plants you like in other people's tanks. Do some research on aquascaping (there are a bunch of links I posted in the Aquascaping forum) and make a plan for the tank. There are a ton of really nice plants, just pick what you like/what will work for your aquascaping plans/what is available/etc. There are soooo many options. For me that's what makes this fun.

Here's an index of past contest entries for the AGA contest. A lot of really nice looking tanks that should have all of their plants listed:

[link=http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005.cgi]http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005.cgi" style="COLOR: #36af30[/link]

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Jebo-Aquarium-Water-Plants-A-192-CO2-System_W0QQitemZ7705789893QQcategoryZ66794QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Found I good deal on a system. Looks like it's imported.

I'm not familiar with the Jebo brand...

EDIT: It says it uses electrodes... I dunno then...Could be like the Carbo Plus and just use KH to produce CO2... I think I'll save up for a pressurized system.

New question: What plants do you personally like, that would work well in my setup? (When I get CO2 and ferts)Perhaps some reddish plants?





Last edited by fishnewbie at 12-Aug-2005 13:53

You're welcome.

From what I understand of pressurized CO2 (one day I'll convert!), it is really simple once you've done the setting up, you'll also love the control it gives you.

A lot of stuff in this hobby is really intimidating to newbies but there's no reason it should be, anyone can do it with a bit of planning.