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Tetra, welcome to Moss Addiction
Thanks DaFishMan

Tank is 78F, so it's warm, but not that warm, my other lowight tank 1.1 wpg is same temp and the most grows fine.
I think ACIDRAIN feels it doesn't like highlight. The difference between my 2 tanks is light, co2 and heavilier ferts. The other plants aren't brown.

BTW - The most doesnt die, it just get's alot of stuff stuck to it and doesn't grow, when you clean it the most is still very green.

Cup,
Tried to increase water movement and it does seem to help, but I"m still not getting good consistent growht

My Scapes

Those numbers are just for generalization. No, I would not consider them the same for PC, MH, VHO, or HO T5s. Each of these has their own standards, I just use the numbers listed above as a general area to work with. As you all should remember, I am from the old school, lol. Back before all these fancy lights were around.

I remember by first high light (not first plant tank, just first high light) requiring plant tank. It was a 55 gal. To meet the requirements for the plants, I set it up in front of the bay window facing south. I also had 4 fluorescent bar lights on it as well. Back then, you did what you had to do if you wanted something out of the ordinary. All the plants I had back then I got while diving in the rivers in Florida. I lived in Florida then.

Technology has come a long way these days.

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There is always a bigger fish...

"Cup,
Tried to increase water movement and it does seem to help, but I"m still not getting good consistent growht"

Sorry, I can't help you there. I don't really pay attention to the progress of the it's growth. I guess we can all just assume it's a fairly slow plant and leave it at that. Also, in high current, the stuff is a b**** to get out of filter intakes, so it's all for the better, I suppose .

ACIDRAIN,

I somehow cannot believe that these numbers would count for PCs or MHs, in particular when equipped with descent reflectors. I am in line here with tetratech . Furthermore, as we discussed in another thread, the ranges that define the light intensity (low, medium, high) fluctuate greatly with tank size.

Would you consider a CO2 injected tank by Amano anything else than high light based on the type of plants he grows in there? He uses a whopping 3w per liter on his smallest tanks (about 11wpg) but “only” 0.75w per liter on the larger tanks (less than 3wpg) with a sliding scale from small to large tanks.

Anyways, that is just my opinion,

Ingo

PS: Sorry that I added a non-moss related entry.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 10-Dec-2005 16:47

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Acidrain,

Those low, mid, high that's not pc,cf lighting. Anything over about 3 is considered high light by most standards.

My Scapes

"1-3wpg = low lighting
3-5wpg = med lighting
6-8+wpg = high lighting"

You are correct, though no plant really needs over 5 wpg, and few people really do use such extremes of lighting. Anything far above this would qualify as a magnet for diatomaceous growth. The reflectors, in any case, while perhaps not increasing wpgs, definitely increases the amount of light hitting said plants. As with you, though, I utilize plants primarily for nitrogenous waste uptake, though I still have my fair share of relatively uncommon and/or display plants here and there, most of which are small and don't really detract from the swimming area (elatine, HC, mini pellia/riccia, stuff like that).

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 10-Dec-2005 16:07

Most of the plant people I know, consider the following measurements;
1-3wpg = low lighting
3-5wpg = med lighting
6-8+wpg = high lighting

I have seen similar ratings on some plant sites. My plant list is mostly of common plants. As most people around here won't pay good prices for high end plants. So I mostly try to stick to the more common and easier plants to raise/grow. Probably my hardest plant to keep is this one, the Eichornia azurea;


I have a few different crypts, bolbitus (tons of this stuff), java fern, several types of swords, several types of onion plants, lillys, a bunch of different pond plants, and of course the mosses; java moss, willow moss, and Christmas moss. And there are more, but they are mostly all common types of plants.

I am by far not a plant nut, I am a fish nut. But, I think the live plants far out do any fake ones. As well, they are great in the help of breeding many fish, and the survival of many fry. As well they do a great job of working for the tank. [/font]

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There is always a bigger fish...

The sporocarps that Marc is taking pictures of is no way indicative of high lighting. Even low light tanks with display this growth if so the moss feels as if the conditions are right to bloom. 6 wpg is definitely a lot, yet, my photoperiod runs often reach near that amount, and what's more, all of my lights sit directly on top of the tank (my tank covers are basically pieces of sheet plastic just slightly larger than the dimensions of the tank, and the lights are placed right on them) and are equipped with cheap reflectors; any way you look at it, it's still a lot of light, and yet the vesc grows best in my 5.75-4 wpg tank. These are three I currently have pictures of:
http://www.plecofanatics.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3363&cat=500&ppuser=5288
4 wpg at peak hours (30L with two 60W CPDs from HD), 2 after the timer goes off. There's the standard dubayana, and Xmas.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/Kleevage/Picture095.jpg
6.75 wpg at peak (20L with one 80W from HD-I think it was the largest one that they had, but the reflector didn't reach the cyperus helferi at the leftmost area, and one 35W philips CPD), 4 wpg the rest of the day. Dubayana, a few snippets of frontinalis and an unidentified vesc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/Kleevage/Picture135.jpg
QT tank-constantly 1.5 wpg with one mini CPD (philips I believe as well) rated at 15. Filled with clippings of my other tanks. Slowest growing of my tanks despite DIY CO2. Dubayana, unid'd vesc, frontinalis, and xmas.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 10-Dec-2005 12:48

Tetra - too much light can't be the issue, I had no idea Acidrain was talking 6wpg !!!!! Crap, I can't even fathom that amount of light. 78F would be fine, that's what my tanks are at, don't think it's temp. I think you have a point about gunk getting on the moss.. Someone has recommended to me before to hand swish the moss to remove detritus.. But I don't have any, the tankmates take care of it. Yet Cup Of Lifenoodles idea of increasing waterflow with a powerhead seems better still.

Acidrain - 6wpg is ALOT of light WOW. When I think high light, I think around 3 wpg lol. The fishstore must love it when you visit with piles of moss and cuttings !
Feeling jealous now, it should be me !!
I'd love to see your plant list


The Amazon Nut...

Just speaking from experience here, as in my 6 wpg tank, I cannot keep the Java going at all. I have several other mosses that do well in there, just not the Java. There are several websites out there that state the same thing, trouble keeping the moss doing well in high lighting. It grows, just not as well as it does in the lower 1-2 wpg tanks. So well in fact, that about once a month, I take about $200 (wholesale) of it to the lfs around here.

My fav look for the Java, is when it grows up and out of the water. Makes a nice carpet. There it has done very well in the high light, even though it kept a brown covering.

This is about a years worth of growth out the back of the tank (I had a Java wall in the tank). You can see in the pic, it stayed brown on the parts closest to the lighting, and green under the brown parts. The "mat" ended up being about 2 feet long and 3-6 inches high over the course of about 2 years. Here is the corner of the same tank, were the second part grew out as well. Eventually they both connected and had about a 2 foot area.

I have Java moss in about 30 or so of my tanks. And it does better in the 1-3wpg ranges in my tanks. I have kept it in my high wattage tanks, it just did better in the low range tanks. It may do better in other conditions for other people, just not for me. I also know of a few people that have tried it in their higher wattage tanks, and had problems keeping it growing well.


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There is always a bigger fish...

This is a very good website on everything to do with Aqua moss. It lists like 15 different types - Enjoy!

http://www.aquamoss.net/

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Dec-2005 10:15

My Scapes

I'm running 2, 4, 1, and 1.5 watts per gallon respectively in my tanks, and in each I use a variety of mosses as fry cover and a nutrient sponge (it looks nice too, but hey, function over form). They all are in plain view of the light, and grow like weeds, all of which are green and healthy (well, green after you rinse the driftwood shavings off them--damn panaque). I don't know of ANY plant that doesn't appreciate more light. Extra glucose? Hey, why not!

EDIT: Tetra, I've actually noticed that the water movement seems to aid in growth, if anything. The stuff in my non powerhead equipped 10 gallon seems to grow at a slower pace, despite having the highest watt per gallonage of any of my other moss setups.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 10-Dec-2005 01:20

Tetra, welcome to Moss Addiction lol....

Moss LOVES being tied to driftwood best, don't know why. If it's not tied to wood, try that first.

Water flow is not a make/break factor with moss.

Try telling Takashi Amano that Java Moss will not do well in a high light tank. Surely his many beautiful displays say different ? Won't hurt to tuck a piece in a shadier place to see of course... BUT, the best moss growth in my tank occurs on the driftwood which lifts it up to RIGHT UNDER THE BULB.

Any other plants going brown ?
What's the tank temp ? Maybe it's too warm in there ?
Over 27 degrees Celsuis ?

I'd say with your light and co2 etc there isn't any reason why you can't get an amazing moss display happening.
Good luck,
DaFish

Last edited by DaFishMan at 09-Dec-2005 23:31

The Amazon Nut...

Java does not like a lot of light. If you have it in the open area where the high watt lighting is hitting it, it will not do well, and sometimes will even turn brown on the top. The best thing to do, is place it under a ledge or something blocking the direct light, and let it get reflected light from everything around it.

I have kept it in tanks with high current, yes, and it did fine. As well, it does fine in low to no current too.

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There is always a bigger fish...

Thanks acid, I'll keep that info in mind.

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Back in the saddle!

ACIDRAIN,

Do you have alot of flow in that tank. I know java moss is very undemanding, but I'm having trouble growing it in my co2, 2.7 wpg tank, but it grow great in my 12gallon eclipse which has 1.1 wpg, but alot of water movement.

My Scapes

Nowhereman, I have kept Java and some other mosses in water that is 8.5-9ph, and hardness off the scale (waste water of the RO). Being in my Tanganyikan and Malawian tanks. It grows vastly. So much so, that I trim it out by half about every 2-3 weeks. Meaning it doubles in every 2-3 weeks.

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There is always a bigger fish...

agreed nice site, but has been linked to before.
Any your point is............

My Scapes

Hey, great site tetra - I'm thinking of re-doing my shellie tank with some java moss. Do you know if it can stand hardness and high pH?

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Back in the saddle!

agreed nice site, but has been linked to before.

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