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I've been contemplating adding a cheap co2 device like this one and would like to know if anyone has any experience with it.

Hagen co2

I don't want to make a DIY and wonder if this comes close.

What the catalog doesn't tell me is how often I would need to replace the solution. I have a 20 long.

I also don't want to alter my pH much or too fast. In my neck of the woods our water is around 7.8 and none of the LFS alters pH. For two years, I've successfully maintained a tank with healthy white clouds, harlequins, otos, two male guppies, 3 2.5-inch cories and 6 habrosus cories (1/2 inch each). The habrosus were the last to be added several months ago. I don't want to put my fish at risk and want to know what risks there are with this particular system. I'm concerned the pH may drop too rapidly, or rise too quickly should it run out when I don't notice.

My problem is two-fold: Hair algae and tiger val that seems to do well, then do terrible. I find it does better with the addition of Flourish Excel. If I miss a daily dose, it does not do well. The hair algae is growing on the val now and those leaves are dying. I have 24 watts of light (flora-glo) on for 10 hours, and the 20 long is short like a 10 gallon, not deep like a regular 20. I don't necessarily agree that the watts per gallon rule applies the same across the board, when you compare a 20 tall, a 20 regular and a 20 long. The distance from light source to plants is a big factor.

In the tank is hornwort (somewhat pale and full of hair algae that I keep trimming away ), 3 bunches of tiger val, anubias nana (healthy), java fern (healthy) and a mystery plant that grows like a weed (healthy). I use Flourish Excel daily; Flourish, Flourish Potassium weekly, and occassionally use iron (levels were at 0 and I think were being removed fom tap water by conditioner I was using which removes heavy metals). I was using Flourish Trace Min weekly but ran out. I place Flourish tabs in the flourite substrate by the valisneria every 3 months, which it seems to like.

I should also note that my driftwood and other decorations are coated with a beautiful, velvet algae that my otos love to snack on. I find with daily addition of Excel, this starts to brown out. I'm wondering if I can have the best of both worlds or am I going to lose my beautiful velvet algae.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 30-Oct-2004 11:18

Last edited by Cory_Di at 30-Oct-2004 12:35

Ok, we'll try this again.

This is the "desireable" algae I would like to keep. I'm wondering if it will die off with co2. My otos like to snack on this and it is very pretty.

This was taken from the top of the tank, some time ago. The tank has matured much more since this was taken.



Cory_Di attached this image:

Here is another view. The brown coloring of the algae, is now gone and it is fully velvet green, engulfing the entire piece of wood exposed to light.

Cory_Di attached this image:


Last edited by Cory_Di at 30-Oct-2004 11:40[/font]

And one pic of my mystery plant. This likes to be rooted and will send roots from the top, when it is floating, all the way to the bottom. It grows like a weed and probably is.

Cory_Di attached this image:

just curious, why don't you want to diy co2? you could still buy that co2 diffuser and put your own co2 mix on there instead (maybe??). would be much cheaper for you in the long run, since i see that the activation packets are $6 each from that site you linked, whereas you can spend about $4-6 for yeast and sugar and make your own mix which lasts for 2-4 months or more

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Cory Di, The Hagen Co2 works very well, but of course would work better with a larger container. There are very few problems associated with ph changes, contrary to what most 'fish' people think (vs plant people). The only time you will have issues with ph changes is because of concommitant other issues, i.e. Ammonia being more toxic over acidic ph, etc. Or, in the case of specific ph-type fish, i.e. certain Cichlids. With ottos, etc, you will not have any problems with ph changes. The only concern is to make sure you get enough oxygen, which truly is a rare problem except for those who totally minimize surface movement in their tanks to maximize co2.

Kh changes, on the other hand, can cause problems with fish.

With a ph of 7.8, my guess is that you aren't going to see huge ph changes - but the real determining factor would be your kh level. If it is above 3, don't even worry about it.

You will not lose your 'desireable' algae with Co2, you will just have happier plants. There *should* be more oxygen concentration as well because your plants will pearl and provide oxygen - something your fish will like

Now, I'll give you a secret if you are not much into DIY (which I'm not). Go to Lowes and buy a 1/8" x 1/4" I.D HOSE BARB TO FIP ADAPTER (mine is WATTS brand part A-86) in the plumbing section. They should be in little drawars with lots of little plumbing supplies. This will allow you to avoid all the silicone mess. Just get a clean juice bottle and drill a very small hole in the cape, smaller than the barbed end of the HOSE BARB ADAPTER, Then shove the adapter barbed end through so the base blocks any chance of gas escaping. You are done! hook up some tubing, fill your bottle, and Co2 is ready to start! (buy the Hagen bubble ladder separately). I didn't even use my drill, I just turned the drill bit on the bottle cap myself, since some bottle caps are very soft plastic.

I'll give you another secret - use one cup of sugar per liter of water, a half teaspoon of protein powder, a small pinch of yeast, and you are good to go! Then, when your mix slows down, pour all of the mix out but dont rinse the yeast out which will be sticking to the bottom of the container. Then, add more water, sugar, and protein powder, and you Co2 will resume again in a extremely short time (best to do this at night and it is zooming again by morning). Don't use more than a half teaspoon of protein powder because sometimes it works TOO well and it will bubble out of the container into your tank -- not a good thing! In addition to protein powder, you can use molassis and/or yeast nutrient (Ammonium Sulfate) to make an even greater Co2 production. Also, this will last longer than the Hagen mix - sometimes up to three weeks. The secret is not to add more than one cup of sugar per liter - otherwise the ethanol produced is too high for the yeast and the yeast will perish. You want happy, surviving yeast who will work for you again and again and again. Can also buy Champagne yeast which tolerates higher alcohol levels.

Please feel free to ask any other questions. I know how to make Co2 simple!

If by some chance you *do* see a reduction in your desireable algae, just move the light to continue to hit it directly, it should be fine.

Keep me updated!


edit - one more thought - you don't add salt, do you? That is the only other thing that sometimes can affect fish with ph changes - the osmosis - but if you don't add salt, it should not be a factor. Indeed, I know of NO plant people that even concern themselves with ph other than to use it to determine how much Co2 is actually in the tank (most like to get near 30 ppms of Co2). There is a calculater, called Chuck's calculator, that uses KH and PH to determine one's level of Co2.


edit again - I guess I can't shut up this morning. To reiterate about ph changes -- I haven't had one illness since I went to Co2 planted tanks (knocks on wood) including new fish - including two new clown loaches when many clown loaches are susceptible to ick at first purchase. I think well-balanced tanks provide the correct natural environment for fish, and make them healthier. To further food for thought: My two newest loaches have been in "quarantine" for 6 weeks now in an un-filtered planted tank with DIY Co2. There is only an airstone. They are very happy and never once did I have an Ammonia reading. Nevermind there haven't been fish in this tank for maybe 6 months to a year (only plants, snails, c02 - there were also leeches which is the main reason I wanted to "quarentine" these loaches in that tank - they've eaten the leeches). You will find many good planted tanks do not need filters or cycling (except I'm pretty sure the snails kept this tank cycled). Just a bit more food for thought!

Last edited by Piscesgirl at 31-Oct-2004 08:45

Thanks for the info!

I've been working nearly 12 hours daily and barely have time to keep up with water changes. I made it to Lowes for the first time in 4 weeks to pick up some supplies. Fish stores are closer and I can pick up the Hagen version and run with it. However, what I was wondering is if I would need to keep refilling it every week, or if it would run for 2, 3, 4 weeks on a single packet.

I could always switch to DIY at a later date. In fact, I was considering going to a full blown co2 system when I move and set up a larger planted aquarium , with a pH controller. .

Also, would the Hagen allow me to adjust the flow rate? I would prefer to start out at half the amount of co2 that they would recommend for my size tank to see how the fish do, and gradually increase it up to strike the right balance.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Oct-2004 09:07

The Hagen will not allow you to adjust the rate - as it is a fancy DIY system (don't want to back up the flow of gas!). For a 20 gallon, you aren't going to see enough Co2 to make a difference with the packages that come with the mix. Only using my version with protein powder, etc. will make a faster moving Co2. You can always increase aeration, but I think you'll be surprised at how little Co2 you get. It will last one week at a good rate, perhaps two but it will slow down quite a bit in the second week. One would preferably keep the rate high rather than having so many fluctuations.

What kind of filter are you using? With Biowheels, you've be hard pressed to get enough Co2 out of the Hagen to even worry about adding it at half. Plus, it will take about two days to produce at max rate, so it starts pretty slowly. It's good to be cautious, but I think you'll find it not as warrranted in this case.

I see.

I do have a Penguin 170 filter. There is quite a bit of splash.

When I really think about it, if I could reduce the splash, I probably have enough fish in there to produce adequate amounts of co2.