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It would be extremely unlikely you need to run an airstone. Unless there is so many fish they can't move. More Co2 does NOT mean less oxygen.There's no relationship between the two. Quite the opposite. Planted tanks running co2 injection will in all likihood have more oxygenated water then a non planted tank with an airstone running. This is because the plants themselves give off more oxygen.

The additional co2 expired by the plants during the night will have a minimal effect on the pH not enough to warrant switching off the Co2 for 8 or so hours which in itself will probably cause a bigger shift in pH.

It doesn't seem logical to invest hundreds of dollars in a co2 injection system only to switch on an appliance to then drive that Co2 off and then have to start over the next day.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi Tim,

hey bensaf thanks for all of ya replys sounds like you no what your talking about

Not neccessarily a guarantee that I do know what I'm talking about I'm Irish, so I can talk complete nonsense for hours

what plants do people use to get that green carpet affect covering the gravel and what plants would be suited for the front of the tank that arent going to grow real big.

There are afew different types - Glosso, Riccia, Microswords. But you should be be aware that these plants are quite difficult to grow successfully and are maintenance intensive. One plant that can be recommended is Hemianthus callitrichoides ''Cuba''. It is a tiny plant that will spread like a carpet and doesn't need much light. The only reason it's not used much is that it is very hard to find. The only place I know that sell's it is Tropica http://www.tropica.com.
For small plants for the front, Anubias Nana is excellent, some of the smaller Crpytocorenes (Becketii, Parva, Willisi
) will work or Tenellus .

. Once i get my co2 going will i have to keep adding ph up all the time or what do people do when there ph goes down to get it up again

NO!!!! Never add pH up. It's not neccessary. These buffers are usually just phosphates which is algae caviar and will screw up your Co2 readings. The pH can be kept stable and at a good level by proper control of your KH and Co2 input. Measure your Kh and pH before adding o2 and decide on a level of pH you want that will still give you a co2 content of about 15-20ppm. Ideally you want a KH of about 4-5 degrees with a good level of co2 this will give you a pH of 6.8. If your KH is low it can be increased by the addition of baking soda. If anything needs to be adjusted it should be the KH NOT the pH. If your KH is already high the pH can be controlled by the amount of Co2 you inject.There is a good article about how this works and a table for calculating your co2 by measuring KH and pH levels here : http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

what type of gas do you need for the cylinders and what size is best and how long do they last,

Well wherever you buy your cylinder should be able to do refills when neccessary. Bar supply places are usually the easiest to find. Just plain old C02 will do, if you can find "food grade" Co2 (for use in soda, beer etc) it's supposedly a little cleaner but not neccessary. Size is up to you, whatever you have space for ! A 5lb or 10lb cylinder is about the average, not too big can be tucked away. How long it lasts depends on how much Co2 you are injecting but the average for a 5lb cylinder is about 6 months.

sorry for all the questions

No problem that what we're here for, glad to help

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

hey bensaf thanks for all of ya replys sounds like you no what your talking about, what plants do people use to get that green carpet affect covering the gravel and what plants would be suited for the front of the tank that arent going to grow real big. Once i get my co2 going will i have to keep adding ph up all the time or what do people do when there ph goes down to get it up again and what type of gas do you need for the cylinders and what size is best and how long do they last, sorry for all the questions
cheers tim

Last edited by eureka red at 14-Feb-2005 03:12

Can't say much about the solenoid never used one. I guess if you have the extra $40 to spare the extra bit of control would be nice, but not strictly neccessary.

As for the lights, 18000K are designed for saltwater tanks to promote coral growth rather then plant growth. Depending on who you believe spectrum either doesn't make a blind bit of difference to plant growth or is very important . Personally I don't think it makes too much difference and that intensity is more important. But one thing is for sure - different spectrums make your tank LOOK different. The blue light from an 18000k bulb will wash out the colors of the plants and fish and makes evertyhing, IMO, look yukky. For that reason alone I would keep well away from them. Stick with the bulbs you have changing to 18000K is complete waste of money.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

hi again another question for someone to answer, i have currently got 4 x 30w 10,000 k globes and was wondering if i got 4 x 30w 18,000 k globes would this make a difference for plants in terms of growth
cheers tim

hey guys thanks for all the replys, i no now a little about co2 and learning all the time. when i made my own co2 out of bottles and yeast 1 hour latter the plants started pearling which was reamarkable,which they oblivisously love. One more question the milwakee regulator comes with a ph controller, at night when the co2 is running and it reaches a certain ph level it turns off, do you reckon it would be worth while having for a extra $40.00 what are your thoughts or should i just leaving it going 24/7

Last edited by eureka red at 13-Feb-2005 22:19

Untitled,

Certainly every tank is an entity unto itself. Very strange that your fish would be gasping in the morning, especially as it is so lightly stocked. Do they gasp less or not at all if you leave the Co2 off ? How does the airstone in the cannister work ? Just curious. My canister has a tight seal when closed don't know how I'd get an airline in there !

Sorry for all the questions but I'm fascinated why this would be happening. I live in the tropics with naturally warm very soft water (so soft I have to add calcium for the plants) so I pump in a lot of co2 (2-3 bubbles a second) just to get decent levels. This is on 24/7 with an overstocked (shhhh don't tell anyone) tank , but never have a problem with the fish gasping. Have you considered using a powerhead with a venturi attachment. If the power head is low enough down and not to strong this should get more oxygen in without disturbing the surface.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

untitled, it sounds like your co2 injection is set too high if your fish are gasping at the surface and your ph drops overnight if you leave it on. i have mine running overnight, i am slightly overstocked, and my tank is heavily planted (50g) and i have a very stable ph, my fish are never gasping at the surface. you must have your bubble rate set too fast, or else your water is super soft and can't handle it.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

I can not disagree with Bensaf, but my experience is different. In my tank, which I think is understocked (7 cories, 2 rams, 1 betta for 96 litres) and is well planted, I find that my fish need an airstone running at night or they gasp at the surface in the morning. I don't know why it is so in my tank and not in others, but I have to deal with it.

As for turning off the CO2 at night, I thought the same when I got it, why turn it off at night? Then I asked thought to myself there must be a reason why you pay £50 more to get a solendid valve if it's best not to turn it off at night. I don't think solendid valve is a must (unless you pay about £150 more for a pH controller... my current wet dream), but as I already got it, I tried it and I found out that when I turn my CO2 off at night, then my pH stays the same, while it goes down if I leave it on. Again, this might just be my tank. I think this is so because my airstone runs in the canister of the filter which means it doesn't creat surface agitation.

Either way, these are our experiences which are clearly different. We are not trying to confuse you, but what we're proving that doing the same thing (injecting CO2) might be a different experience to two different people with different tanks. And your experience might be different to both of ours, but at least you will know what could be possible.

Hi next week im going to buy a co2 kit for my 70g tank. I have decided on a milwaukee regulator and dupla reaktor s
which will hook up to my canister filter. I have a couple of questions about co2. How many bubbles per minute should i have with my co2, and what type of gas is needed in my cylinder and any other points that i need to be aware off with co2. Next subject
I want to cover my tank with plants and was wondering if i could get some help with the design of where plants should go ie
thin val- along back of tank
amzon swords - in middle
crypts - front
and what other people would do if it was there tank
cheers tim

As for the airstone, there rule is to go according to what your fish need. It is not very likely that you will need it during the day as the plants will produce enough oxygen for your fish. It might be necessary when the lights are out as plants start taking up oxygen and respire CO2. The best thing is to observe your fish few hours after you turn the lights off and in the morning before the lights come on again. If you see them gasping at the surface then you do need to run an airstone.

As for running CO2 24/7, it's also an individual thing rather than a universal law. I, for instance, turn it off at night as in my case the CO2 that the plants produce during the night is enough to keep the pH stable. An airstone usually lowers the CO2 levels (and therefore raises the pH), but I put my airstone in the canister of my Juwel filter, which aerates the water but does not create surface agitation. Again, it's not one size fits all, but a matter of what your tank's needs are. See what works best for you.

i live in milwaukee and our regulators are very good most regulators are pretty good, just make sure you take care of it and replace the washer every time you fill the bottle and check for leaks when you change bottles and you should be fine

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

While I have never used them I have heard Milwaukee regulators are very good.


It will probably be 2 to 3 weeks before you see a significant change in the plants.

What you should see is faster growth, more and bigger leaves, and generally the plants should look fuller and more lush - juicier. If the plants are in optimum condition you may see small bubbles of oxygen forming on the leaves.

As the plants grow faster they consume nutrients much quicker so you will have to supply some extra. Mainly in the form of trace elements. A good quality liquid fert will do the trick, my own personal preference is Tropica Master Grow, seems to give the plants an extra shine.

Unless you are very understocked fish wise there should be little need to add macro nutrients. Just keep an eye on nitrate levels, it is possible (depending on the number/type of plants and fish stocking level) that the plants use up all the available nitrates and this could lead to problems. A nitrate level of 5-10ppm would be ideal for planted tank.

Ensure your lights are on 10-12 hours a day. No more then that. The benefit of Co2 is that it aids in photosynthesis, in order for the Co2 to be effective the plants need sufficient light during the day and sufficient period of darkness.

If you want to see pics of good tanks have a look at the AGA aquascaping contest site. If you click on a tank you like you can get information from the owner and the judges comments. A great place to see what others are doing and get ideas. you can find it here:
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004.cgi

If you are intersted you can see some pics of one of my tanks here:
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Photo%20Booth/51846.html


Last edited by bensaf at 11-Feb-2005 00:51

Last edited by bensaf at 11-Feb-2005 07:25

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

hi thanks for all of the replys, what do u see when your tank stablizes and are milwaukee regulator any good does anyone no and do i have to fertiliser after adding co2?

How many buubles permin is a difficult to answer. Depends on a lot of things and varies from tank to tank. As moondog said start at about 1 bubble a sec and then gradually increase til you get the desired level.

I leave it on 24/7.

As for plant placement - play safe ! When I started adding Co2 the plants I had in the fore and mid ground became huge monsters and you could see into the tank - had to pull everything up and do a bit of moving.

Vals and swords (depending on species) in the back. There are a few swords that will work mid ground, but most (Amazon, Ocelot, Rubin,Melon) get too big.

Crypts in the middle. With the right conditions most will get to about 12" tall makeing them eventually too tall for a foreground plant.

Stem plants should be either back or middle depending in the species. Always have something smaller in front of your stem plants, either another plant or rock/wood as the bottoms invariably lose their leaves as the plant grows and the bottom gets less light. Having something in front can hide this.

For the front Anubias (Nana, Coffeefolia, Barteri), Tennellus, Hairgrass etc.

It's ok to have one or two taller plants near the front to give a sense of depth. Something thin or with small leaves works best.

Use red plants sparingly. It's tempting to go overboard with the pretty flashy red plants but almost never works. A dash here and there works better.

Try to have a contrast of leaf types and colors. i.e. A plant with a lot of a smaller leaves works better beside a sword then another sword.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

if you have a bubble counter, you should see about one bubble per second for starters. make sure you check your ph before you turn it on, and every few hours after it starts running until you see it stabilize. also make sure you know your KH and then use [link=this chart]http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/table_01.shtml" style="COLOR: #ff0044[/link] to make sure your co2 concentration doesn't get too overboard.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

from what ive learned so far... u leave the co2 on all the time and use no air stones because they create more surface agitation.

and i dont need to use airstones right and should i leave my co2 going all nite and what are some good websites with pictures of excellent planted aquariums with co2