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Plantbrain,

Thanks much for the add'l info. I'm going to keep as reference so I can fine-tune things as I move along.

NoWhereMan,

I picked up the Greenlight brand of stump remover and put in about 1/4 tsp in my 46g and so far my test kit is still showing zero. When you first added to your tank how much did you put in.





My Scapes

Thanks!

Sounds good about the extra light for 3 to 6 hrs.
I'll try to up Co2 higher.

I've been adding the Greenlight Stump Remover and after adding about 1/2 tsp to my 46g I'm still reading "0" nitrate. Do you think that's possible. I'm testing with "Red Sea" testtube kit.



My Scapes

Sounds good about the light.
The EC will mess with the KH is your only concern, add enough CO2 to drop the pH.

KH is the only buffer of concern when using CO2.

Many folks end up not turning on the extra bank of lights or else only for 3-6 hours in the middle of the day.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Thanks for the add'l info Plantbrain.

Everything you said is O.K. for 2wpg. I do have a dual lamp capable of 4 wpg, but I don't want to go to it until co2 and other levels up.

I am using 2 hagen cansisters and getting a consistent rate of 2 bubbles every 3 seconds through one diffusor, but my kh reading (Red Sea test kit) holds at 3.

My other issue is my ph reading. It seem to be stuck at around 7.0 - 7.2. I think it would be lower but the eco-complete is creating a higher number.



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pH target with a KH of 3: 6.4 to 6.5.
Measure when the lights come on and when they go off and compare.

No nutrient issues algae etc will be solved until the CO2 is in good shape.

Also, the pale transparent plants are a sure sign of low NO3.

Low NO3 is very bad.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Okay here's what to do nutrient wise:
50% weekly water change

Right after the water change: Dose 1/2 teaspoon 2x a week of KNO3 and Dose 1/8 teaspoon of KH2PO4
Next day add 10mls of Traces

Repeat this in about 2-3 days again.

If the tank is doing well and the plant mass is high, add 3x a week, same routine.

Always prune and remove algae, wipe glass and clean filter etc FIRST then do the water change last.

Keep up on things and clean well for two - three weeks.

Things should be looking very good on the third week.

Regards,
Tom Barr

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Whoops, sorry for bringing up cyanobacteria. It's that slimy blue-green algae that usually occurs in planted low nitrate tanks. All I meant by mentioning it was, bad things happen when you don't supply your plants with the basic things they need to thrive. I hope you never get it, but not getting it is another benefit up upping your nitrates.

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Back in the saddle!

Now you might have lost me. I understand the zero nitrate and the plants using it up, but the Cyanoabacteria, what's that all about.

By the way I tested the nitrate in my tap and that is zero as well. Is that usually the case?




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Just think about it, though. Your stock, heavy as it is, is creating all that waste but your nitrates are registering at 0 - or let's just say below 5ppm. That's cyanobacteria waiting to happen. You can infer from those nitrate levels that you must be pretty heavily planted, or at least have a good number of nutrient hungry stem plants, because they're swallowing up all of the available N in your tank. It's important to allow the N to be available for your plants to use, which is why we keep those nitrate numbers up.

It's understandable to be concerned about the fish when dosing something that would be considered bad in a non-planted tank, But keep in mind nitrate isn't nearly as bad at low levels as nitrite. When I dose my tank my big school of harleys swims right though the falling particles thinking it's food, and I've never seen a problem with them. Just give it some time.

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Back in the saddle!

Hey NoWhere,

No it's actual drops that you add to the 5ml line.
I do just that. I'll wait a few days, I only added at this point about 1/4 tsp total. I obviously am nervous about my fish, etc.

Also I do have alot of stock:

2 large angels
2 rams
18 cardinals
8 rummynoses
4 dwarf plecos
4 otos

I assume this will also affect the amount of KNO3 I could add.


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Is it a strip test, or do you add drops to a little 5ml or so bottle? Strip tests arent really the best to use.

If you put in 1/4 teaspoon already, I'd add another 1/4 today, then wait 3 days and add another 1/2 teaspoon, then wait 2 more days and update us on the readings. It may take a few doses to get the nitrates up, but you don't want them to jump up to 15-20ppm too fast anyway.

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Back in the saddle!

I'm using a "Red Sea" test lab.
It has a high and low range for it's color.
A zero rating is greenish/blue

Not sure if this matters, but my water temp is 80F.
and I'm using eco-complete substrate.

I don't think the eco would affect the nitrate reading. It does raise ph so my co2 numbers are affected.



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What kind of test kit are you using? Some of them are quite inaccurate, it seems.

Try adding 1/2 teaspoon twice per week and see what your readings are after a week or two, then adjust. You may have to dose 3 times per week. You don't want to spike your nitrates though; try to build them up gradually.

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Back in the saddle!

I'm definitely at a crossroad with my 46 gallon planted tank. I just recently added c02 to my tank via two nutrafin cansisters with one diffuser and am getting about a bubble every 3 seconds.

I'm deciding whether I should increase my lighting from 96 watts (1 cf bulb) to 192 watts (2 cf bulbs).

As it stands right now I'm having a moderate problem with thread algae on my plants and don't want it to get worse.

My parameters are:
46 Gallon
96 Watts cf 6700k (currently)
temp 80, kh 3, ph 7, nitrate (showing 0 in test kit)
eco-complete substrate (I understand this might make kh level harder to measure because it buffers ph up.)
Plants include:
Java moss
Hygrophila,
Hygrophila sunset
Wisteria

The sunset is showing some transparent leaves and as I mentioned I have a problem with thread algae.

So do I:

Keep lighting the same 96 watts
Use both bulbs (192 watts)
Use second bulb for limited time (3 to 4 hrs daily)

What would you do. I understand I might have to add nitrates, more co2 etc, but I'm trying to decide on the lighting.






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You can use Grants or Cooke's brand as well, it looks like small round beads.

You can also order any of this stuff as well as KH2PO4 from www.gregwatson.com

He sells all the DIY ferts for cheap.

Folks that want to increase growth will wnat the KNO3, KH2PO4 and traces. I use TMG or Flourish for my traces out of habit.

If the tap is low in GH, CaCl2 and MgSO4(epsom salt) can be added at a 4:1 ratio.

Low KH: add baking soda

If you have high NO3 in the tap water, non CO2 tanks etc, adding K2SO4 can be useful.

SeaChem Equilibrium will add K+, ca, Mg, SO4, Mn and Fe as well.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Bensaf,

You really sorted through and gave me a good path to follow to a successful planted tank - Thanks again!

NoWhereMan,

I found the Greenlight brand of stump remover at the Lowes near me. - Thanks!




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Nowhere pretty much covered it all.

Your main problem at the moment is lack of nitrates. The plants can't grow. When the plants can't grow the remaining nutrients are free for the algae. Additional light at this stage will exacerbate the problem. 4wpg is even a bit much for a tank with high Co2 levels. 3wpg , co2 and good nutrients will allow you to grow pretty much anything you want. All of your current stock will do fine in 2wpg.

Get the nitrate up to 5-10ppm and keep them there. If you can't find the KNO3 locally the link that nowhere provided is an excellent cheap source, a few bucks will give you enough to last for a year or two !

After that try to get yourself in a position where you can supply 20ppm of Co2 consistently.

Then you can think about increasing light . 3 wpg will allow you to grow pretty much anything.

Plant heavily. It doesn't have to be a dense jungle but as heavy as you can stand. Keep them pruned. You put in nutrients, the plants use them, you trim the plants thereby removing the nutrients, you replace the nutrients and you have a nice stable cycle going on with very few issues.

We've all been there starting up these darn planted tanks. As nowhere said it's about balance. The problem for most is finding that balance. We tend to be impatient. Money is an issue for most of us so we tend to add the necessary components piece by piece, thereby creating imbalances along the way that cause problems. The problems cause frustration and delay trying to battle the tank. When you finally get to the place where it all comes together you slap yourself on the head and go "doh!" it was really so simple all along ! Took me about 6 months to get to that place.

Light 2-3 wpg. 10-12 hours per day.
Co2 20ppm
Nitrates 5-20ppm
Phosphate 0.5 - 1 ppm
Traces from a good liquid fert.
Lots of plants.

If you have all the above, you'll be able to grow pretty much anything with very few problems. Then it's just a case of putting a timer on the lights, setting the co2 to the desired level, dosing your ferts 2-3 times a week, 30-50% water changes to keep anything from building up, trim as necessary.

The lights and co2 is a one time job. The dosing takes a couple of minutes every second day. The water change about an hour a week. The trimming can be a pain in the butt, but you won't mind doing it, better then scrubbing algae !

After that the final step is to move your Lazy Boy facing the tank, take a freshly brewed coffee or a cold beer, light up a cigar if your are so inclined, sit back and enjoy !


Last edited by bensaf at 14-Mar-2005 21:33

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Nah, don't do that dude... I mean, I don't know what's in there, but unless it's pure KNO3, you probably don't want to put it in your tank.

Here, check this place out

You can buy it here just as cheap, if not cheaper. Just look for "KNO3"

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Back in the saddle!

Just called home depot and they have a product called
Bonide Products - Stump Out. Does anyone know if you could use this product to increase Nitrate.



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Fiqures I have mostly Home Depots near me. Maybe they have it or I'll have to take a trip to Lowes.

I was going to buy either Seachem or Kent's nitro products, but it sounds like your solution is more economical.

Thanks again!

My Scapes