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just a quick question...

Is it worth running C02 on a tank with a sump? and T5H0 lighting?

This tank will be heavily planted with
swords
lotus
stem plants
crypts
anubias
and some floating plants

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

It's a quick question, with a not so quick answer . Well, I could give you a quick answer, which would be: yes, it's worth it. Your plants will grow fuller and faster.

However, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. Adding CO2 when you have a low light (1-1.5 wpg) situation will not do terribly much for your plants. In low light, their metabolism is relatively low, which means that they won't use as mmuch CO2 as they will under high light situation. The extra CO2 may increase growth a little, but don't expect dramatic improvement.

If you go to middle to high light (2-3.5 wpg) the extra CO2 will boost your plants quite a lot, you'll probably see pearling on many of the plant species (maybe not so much on crypts and anubias, but the stem plants often will pearl) and growth increases quite a bit. The plant's metabolism speeds up and with that comes increased needs for nutrients, so besides the CO2 you will also have to start adding a bit of other nutrients. Getting the balance right may take some time.

Then there is still the issue of the kind of CO2 system you will be adding. Will it be a DIY CO2 supply, using yeast cultures, or a pressurized tank with CO2 (which is much more expensive, but holds a steady supply of CO2, compared to the cheap but variable CO2 supply of the DIY CO2).

Personally, I'd say that if your tank looks good in your eyes, and you're not having any trouble with it as it is, then continue what you're doing right now. Adding CO2 may improve the way your plants grow, but it adds a lot of complexity to your system.

i was thinking perhaps it wouldnt be worth running because a sump constantly oxygenating the water would nullify alot of the growth/health that the C02 would have...

this tank will be high light in parts and low in others. its going to be a river tank with floating plants down one end (the end where the intakes are) filtering the light. Hence the anubias and the crypts.

WPG will be lowish but from my limited sw experiance it a couple of T5H0s will have more effect then any amount of T8 lights...


It will be a proper uber pricy C02 setup. I had a DIY C02 setup once and lets just say YEAST+TANK=BAD! lol

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

Alex,

You guys talked about the CO2 from a perspecive if it is doable with a sump (my thought is yes, but will limit the keep in the water).

I have a different spin:

Why do you want to have a sump?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, LF is right, a sump isn't the ideal filtration system for a planted tank, but assuming you have it already and want to use it there are ways to reduce the loss of co2 gas.

to determine if co2 is worth it we would need to know the size of your tank and how much light you are running.

My Scapes

Do your T5HO bulbs have a reflector for each bulb, or does it have one single reflector for a few bulbs?

The question I ask is because well built T5HO fixtures decided to completely ignore the WPG rule. I have 2 39w T5HO with individual reflectors over my 30g reef tank. It grows SPS, so it would have to be called a very high light tank, yet is under 3wpg. I don't think I'd be able to control algae in a fw tank with that much light, even with CO2.

However, units like the current T5HO fixture are going to be only slightly better than PC fixtures, as they don't have individual parabolic reflectors.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

individual parbolic reflectors matty

its going to have a sump so its easy to change into a reef later on... if the fresh water tank doesnt scratch my itch...

mmm yes algae will be an issue though it will be 2ft deep and 2ft wide... (also for reef purposes if it comes to it...) also means i can have BIG fish lol

got space for a 6x2x2 but which will cost alot but in the end ill be happier... also need to find a source of the fish i want to put in it... so its just in the early stages of planning...

2x T5H0 156watts
1x NOT8 (just a pair of 3ft lights i got lying around... (couldnt hurt eh)
and posibly a moonlight for my amusment... if the wallet can handle it that is...

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

Alex,

As much as I understand your desire to keep your options open (reef vs large fish vs planted), as much do I see this as a real problem.

I hope that you will prove me wrong , but trying to keep all options open will be your downfall for the planted tank experience.

Managing a high tech planted tank is challenge enough, making compromises because you one day may make a reef out of it will hinder you greatly in your planted tank experience.

I don't mean to sound harsh or something, try to read my entry as my concerns with regards to helping you to make the best out of a potentially beautiful setup.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

i guess ill just have to get an overflow box when/if i get the urge for another reef... Thats a shame... still the tank will go ahead

so how does this sound for a setup...

Tank
6x2x2
thinking i might get it made 4inches taller atm making it a 210G lol

filtration (recently edited lol)
1x ehiem wet dry 2227
1x fluval 405
2x cheap powerheads with prefilters
1x 18watt UV steriliser (already have)
running a river system...
*likes to make everything complicated*

Lights
1x T8NO 60watts
2x T5HO in individual parbolic spyder reflectors
1x Lunar Tracker (red with 8 LEDS)

C02 (so far im looking at)
1x 1.5kg C02 Bottle
1x Dupla reactor S
1x AZOO C02 Dual Solenoid Regulator
*needs to bone up abit on C02*

Heating
2x Hydor Theo 400watts

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

Alex:

Tank - Make sure you are certain to identify the tank first before deciding on the rest of the hardware. This way you avoid either being on the weak side of things (as in all of a sudden having 50 additional gallons to heat up) or spending too much money (as in a filter that may not be needed). In any case, the larger the better , but keep in mind that height of a tank has an enormous impact on light needed.

filtration - Why a wet dry? Why not the new Professional III with its huge volume? UV steriliser is good, for what purpose would you get it though, algae or fish health? Make sure the flow rate is good for your desired outcome (tetratech knows that stuff really well).

Lights - What are you planning to grow? Overall, sounds a little weak for such a big tank (even worse for 210G). Red LEDs? What are they supposed to do for you?

C02 (so far im looking at) - The bottle seems really small. Given that a 210G probably will need so much CO2 that you cannot measure it anymore with bps (bubbles per second) as there will be a constant flow rather than bubbles I would assume that you need a replacement about once a month (at least). Anyway, what is 1.5K in pounds, like around 3, right? I have a 10 pound bottle even on my 40G with only 2bps, this way I have to get a refill only every few (6 to 8) months.

Heating - Always depends on the possible room temperature. If it isn't really cool during the winter (eh summer) then weaker ones would do, if not then more heat is needed. In general I would rather have more heaters than needed in case one stops working. This way, the other(s) can still function without a problem in the tank. So, if you were to go with 2x400, I would rather say 3x300.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Lights - What are you planning to grow? Overall, sounds a little weak for such a big tank (even worse for 210G).

I already said not to underestimate the T5 power LF . 156w of T5 with individual parabolic reflectors like alex said he has is probably equivalent to two or three times the wattage in power compacts depending on the ballasts. And we all know the wpg rule breaks down quite a bit on big tanks....they need a little less wattage.

That said, I'd think you would want a smidgen more for a reef tank, but I think that would be plenty of light for most plants.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

thinking i might get it made 4inches taller atm making it a 210G lol

Which would bring the tank to 28 inches in height

And yes, T5s are good and what not, but are they that good? I know people with T5s over freshwater, in tank sizes between 30G and 75G. Yes, all looks good, but for sure not the wonder lamp where it doubles the "performance" of a PC, at least that is my opinion and I am sticking with it

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

WET/DRY will oxygenate the water at roughly 3min intervals meaning this tank is going to be in my bedroom so i cant run an air pump or any high noise surface agaition at night... the wet dry doesnt make then much noise and should keep oxygen levels high enough for the fish and low enough for the C02 to take effect... this is just an assumption tell me if im wrong...

The UV steriliser is going to be for algae was just going to stick to the reccomended flowrate but if theres its easier to kill algae with a higher/lower flowrate ill do that.

1.5kg is the only bottle i can find online atm... can you point me in the direction of a 20 or so kg bottle? haha just abit bigger then before lol im a C02 newbie so ill probably make alot of mistakes but live and learn eh?

oh and my stand is going to be about 90cm high so the physical size of it shouldnt be a problem... oh and the cannisters will be raised up alot so i wont loose that much in head height...

ATM im freezing and its about 18C so ill probably only need to be able to lift it up 5-8C most of the time... *would be looking at 3x 300watts but i want to keep the clutter in the tank to a minimal...

LF dont underestimate the T5H0s with individual parbolic reflectors there really intense lights just have a look at the difference when matty switch from compact fluros to T5H0 with parbolic reflectors actually dont the picture seem to have dissapeared for his thread... but ill tell you the difference is HUGE! actually matty if you want to prove our point put the pics in this thread lol

Planing on growing a bit of everything from crypts to tonia lol i plan of having about 1/3 of the tank covered with floating plants with alot of dw underneath this is where i shall plant my low light stuff (crypts, anubias and hornwort) and in the other 2/3s some ricca tonia lotus and other highlight stuff...

Red Leds are supposed to amuse me at night and hopefully wake me up in the morning (so i dont have to wake up to T5HOs)

im having second thoughts about the fluval 405 i think i will need a much bigger cannister along with the wet dry to keep the tank clean atm im thinking like LF said a Eheim pro 3 (my wallet isnt thinking it though but im sure he will get over it) or possible an Aqua El 700, Aqua One 2400 ,Fluval FX5 or Rena XP3 opinions wanted

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

Alex,

Very funny entry, glad you have a sense of humor

About the oxygenatin: you don't need any and --> You don't want any, you just don't know it yet. High tech tanks do not like surface agitation as it increases the loss of CO2 that you pump in there. And to avoid high CO2 at night, just have a solenoid on the regulator that turns the CO2 off at night (on timer with the lights, for example). Side topic: I know people that switch over to have their CO2 run 24/7 at a lower flow rate and so far think it boosts plant growth.

I have no clue where you would get a CO2 bottle Down Under, but here you can get them at a welding suppl store and at sports supply stores that sell paint ball equipment (although I know about the latter only from others).

3x300w - Have you seen my 125G log? I have 3 heaters in there, barely visible.

T5s - I know they are good, but so far I have not seen any magic performed with them. I am contemplating getting the TeckLight for my 40G though, with 4 T5sHO.

Question: how do you plan to cover a 1/3 of the tank with floating plants? Fishing line to keep them in that area?

I think the tank would look more natural with blue or white LEDs, think about it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

i found a 15pound bottle roughly how long will it take till i have to refill it giving a good level of C02? Or if you could find or know of a bigger bottle could you tell me what it is?

i should be able to get it in either that or ill buy it when i go to the states later this year . That will be fun taking through customs

so very little surface agaition in a river tank... this is going to be interesting... if i put the intakes/outputs of the powerheads low in the water it shouldnt affect the surface that much?...

ok so with surface agaition being the enemy the wet dry is out of the question... what cannister(s) do you think would be good?

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''