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Most of my fast growing stem plants, Polysperma, Wisteria and Ludwigia Repens have developed a strange phenomenom which has me stumped. I'm thinking it may be some sort of deficiency but at a loss as to what it may be.

Basically lots of the leaves have got strange black lines. Almost as if they were gently slashed without cutting the leaf.Also some new leaves on the polysperma are growing out small and twisted.

This appeared within a couple of days of my adding some high quality activated carbon to remove tannins from the driftwood (got tired of the yellow tint). The carbon did a super job of removing the tannins water was crystal clear in a couple of days, but I'm wondering if it also stripped some needed nutrient.I've been adding Tropica Master Grow at half reccommended dose for past couple of weeks and there has been some improvement on the new leaves.

Other possible suspects are the new SAE's or the snails, but I'm doubtful as there is no actual damage or signs of eating on the leaves.

I've included a pic below of some Repens leaves where the black lines are clearly visible. Appreciate if anybody has any ideas and the problem or solutions be glad to hear them.Thanks.
bensaf attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/412553.jpg"]

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

For the "small and twisted" I'd say the first thing to check is your CO2 production (I always get pale, twisty, small leaves when mine stops and I've forgotten it). For the lines ... could there be a fishy culprit? It doesn't look like something the plant is doing to itself, since the lines are sort of random and certainly don't run in a vein pattern.

-Molly
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That was fast Little Mousling !

Fishy culprits? Almost all the fish have been in there for months, no real plants munchers, and this has only appeared in the last week or so. Only possible suspects are the SAE's who have only been in about 2 weeks and have been doing a terrific job. Maybe they are not as gentle on the plants as I thought ?

The Swords, Anubias, Crypts etc are showing no sign of damage only the "leafy" stem plants.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I wouldn't suspect the SAEs, but it does look pretty clear to me that it's an outside cause - those irregular, random black strips just don't look like anything that could just happen to a plant, even if there is some nutrient deficiency. Hmmmm. I'm stumped, really.

-Molly
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what other fish do you have in there. anything large that can brush up and fold the leaves of your plants. like plecs or larger armored catfishes

I'm thinking it's an iron deficency...my aponos did something like that when I didn't dose ferts for a while (not to that degree though...just slightly)...my ferts are high in iron...

BTW AW0L, armored catfish get 3' long...

Thanks all,

No nothing big in there, largest is an angelfish.Mainly Tetras, Rainbows and Gourami.None of them notorious plant munchers.

I had dismissed the fish as culprits as this appeared on a very large amount of leaves almost overnight. Except for the SAE's all fish have been there for months.

I still somehow suspect the Carbon, it was the only change in the set up and this appeared within a couple of days of adding the carbon.So far it seems to be limited to the Hygro, Ludwigia, Rotala and Wisteria.

The new leaves are coming out better since dosing with TMG. If it is a deficiency I'd love to know which one so I can correct it.

The best guess I can make so far is a possible Calcium deficiency

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Check your nitrates. If they aren't high, I'll eat my shoe.

Seriously though, I was using ammonia to keep a tank cycled and dosing flourish comprehensive very liberally trying to induce algae. My tropical sunset hygro displayed the same markings... the nitrates were high. There were no fish in the tank.

I don't think the markings are caused by a deficiency. I think it's caused by something that is excessive.

[span class="edited"][Edited by jake 2004-08-10 21:32][/span]

Hey Bensaf,

I think you should keep an eye on your angelfish, I have 5 of them in my tank and one of them went herbivore last week, eating almost 50% of the new leaves of my Hygrophylla corymbosa. I have no idea what triggered this behavior, they are sufficiently fed once a day and shouldn't behave llike that, but your angel might be the culprit as well. Damaged leaves also have some influence on the shape of newly formed leaves, so it does not necessarily have to be a water problem.

Jake,
Just tested Nitrates, 10ppm.
How would you like those shoes sir, well done, medium or rare

Just kidding ! It was something worth checking. But I keep a close eye on the water and never had a reading above 10, which I don't think would count as excessive.

Bonke,
I have same problem. Angelfish gone salad in the past couple of months. But , unfortunately has high class tastes and only seems to like the red plants (damn it) and I have a tough enough time growing them.But never does enough damage to seriuosly harm a plant.

I though this happened too sudden and on too many leaves to be a fish. Also the marks are like something was rubbed against the leaf firmly but without piercing the flesh.

I am wondering about the SAE's though, I had my arm in the tank tonight adjusting something when they decided to graze my arm for algae They have surprisingly strong mouths - wondering if their constant grazing is damaging the softer leaves

Although Jake could be on to something, with the excessive theory.Maybe I'll lay off the TMG for a bit and see how it goes.

Stumped.

[span class="edited"][Edited by bensaf 2004-08-11 08:57][/span]

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

If it's the SAEs, I'd bet that they're only hurting it because it's already having some problem or other (the twisty and small leaves) - most fish, even plant-safe ones, will eat leaves that aren't in vibrant health, or can injure them.

-Molly
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