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I have two tanks that are planted, but the plants don't look so hot and I have problems with bba and now cyanobacteria. Both have moderate lighting and one has DIY C02 (although I never added a good diffuser yet so it doesn't do much!). I think my main problem is lack of nitrates. I only do water changes every other week at most, but neither tank has ever had any readable nitrates. I thought when I added my mom's big pleco to my then new 55gallon last year that nitrates would finally jump, but they never did.

So what do I need? More fish, intentional overfeeding, or adding liquid nitrates (I read about that but it scares me to think of putting something in my tank intended to dissolve wood )

I would like to make some changes and have the 55 gallon have DIY CO2 (with a good diffuser) with lush plant growth and make the 29 gallon simpler with low light plants and no CO2.

29USG
55 watt compact fluorescent (~1.9wpg)
DIY CO2
1 bristlenose pleco
5 black widow tetras
3 kuhli loaches
1 serpae tetra

55USG
130 watt compact fluorescent (~2.4wpg)
1 big common pleco
8 schwartzi cories
5 lemon tetras
4 yoyo loaches

Mo,

The lack of Nitrate is causing the Cyno and the DIY Co2 is causing the BBA.

To only way to elimante the cyno is to add Nitrate. I was a bit nervous about doing it a first, but it's really simple and nothing to be frightened of. As long as you're careful with the dosage it's all good. I think you need to use about a thousand times more to actually dissolve wood It really does make an enormous improvement in plant health.

BBA will trive where is there is fluctuating levels of Co2. Adding DIY without decent diffusion is probably feeding the bba more then plants.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

"BBA will trive where there is fluctuating levels of Co2."

That explains alot. I never had bba until I started with the co2, and after co2 it was the only type of algae I had in that tank. I will try going without co2 until I can get a proper diffuser setup.

The cyanobacteria is a new addition. I started getting it in both tanks after adding hornwort. That led me to believe that maybe I did have trace amounts of nitrates and the hornwort sucked them all up allowing the cyano to develop.

Adding the nitrates is scary, but I know others have done it, so maybe I'll give it a go. I think someone posted detailed info on it a few weeks ago..I'll see if I can find that.

Thanks so much for the help.

KNO3 is found in some brands of tree stump remover. I use greenlight which I found in Lowes. Get the powder form. One teaspoon in a gallon jug of water then added as needed to your tank.

Have a read thru [link=this one]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/55021.html?200503021131" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] if you havent already.

^_^



[hr width='40%'] "Ah, yes," said the toad. "You've got Nac Mac Feegles!"

It's strange but I've noticed in about 90% of the threads I've seen about Cyno, people have hornwort in their tank.

I've never had the stuff. I guess it's too efficient of a nitrate sucker.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Babelfish, that was just the thread I was looking for.

I downloaded the "Chuck's Planted Aquarium Calculator" to use that was mentioned in the thread. I also did some more reading in PMDD articles about adding nutrients. I'm a bit confused about some things still.

1. How often are you supposed to add the KNO3...daily, weekly? Do fluctuating nitrates hurt the fish, even if the levels are low?

2. It says to have a target of 5ppm nitrates. That means I should have 5ppm nitrates that are not used by the plants? Do you just keep testing the water to see how many nitrates the plants are using up in 24 hours? Then add enough KNO3 everyday for the plants to utilize and still have 5ppm nitrates leftover? How much do you add the first time, enough to immediately go from 0ppm to 5ppm, or is that a shock for the fish?

3. I read to only mix up enough solution for a few months at a time. Does it need to be refrigerated, or is that only for the solutions with more than KNO3 in them (like the PMDD).

4. Should the stock solution be made at a dilution to be measured in drops, ml, cups. I saw some people saying they added a few drops and others adding 300mL at a time. I tried the 1 teaspoon KNO3 to 1 gallon water that Babelfish mentioned in the calculator. It showed that adding 1ml solution at that dilution would only raise the NO3 .23ppm for a 1 gallon tank. It wouldn't even give a value for NO3 for a 55 gallon tank. Am I using the calculator wrong or is there different concentrations of dry KNO3 that you can get? Would it be easier to add it dry?

Sorry for the long post and numerous questions. I tend to overcomplicate things, or so I've been told


Last edited by MO at 06-Mar-2005 14:50

MO,

The PMDD theory is a little bit out of date now.

KNO3 can be added directly to the tank. There is no need to make large quantities of solutions for storage.

The amount of KNO3 needed can added diectly to the tank without harm to fish. They can take the small rise in Nitrates in their stride. Large shifts ie going from 0 to 20ppm wouldn't be welcome.

The target is to have 5-10ppm at any given time. The most important thing is that you don't let them drop to zero. At zero the plants stop growing and algae starts to get an upper hand.

People approach this in different ways, some like to add 5-10ppm 2 to 3 times a weeks, others like to add a couple of ppm each day. Either way is fine as long as there is Nitrate available and it doesn't build up.

One way to approach it is to measure nitrates after dosing and then again every day or so and recording the drops in nitrate level.This will give you an idea of how much the tank "eats" and you can build a dosing regime around this information.

Personally I use Tom Barr's (plantbrain) Estimative Index. This is basically dosing 2-3 a week with a 50% water change every week. This ensures that there is always nutrients available and the large water changes prevent any build ups. Basically it resets the tank and you immediately start dosing again after the water change.(I dose Macros after water change and Micros (Tropica Master Grow) the day after.This is a very simple easy to use method that requires very little testing once you get into the rythym. Not only that but it's also incredibly successful, the plants have never looked better or healthier, algae is virtually non existant.

I would say dose enough to give you 5-10ppm straight away. Then monitor nitrate until you see it drop and then dose again, this will tell you if you need to dose once a week , twice a week etc and then stick to that routine.

You can dissolve the KNO3 in some water, before adding to the tank.

4. Should the stock solution be made at a dilution to be measured in drops, ml, cups. I saw some people saying they added a few drops and others adding 300mL at a time. I tried the 1 teaspoon KNO3 to 1 gallon water that Babelfish mentioned in the calculator. It showed that adding 1ml solution at that dilution would only raise the NO3 .23ppm for a 1 gallon tank. It wouldn't even give a value for NO3 for a 55 gallon tank. Am I using the calculator wrong or is there different concentrations of dry KNO3 that you can get? Would it be easier to add it dry?

This is the part that always seems to confuse people. Think about it, a gallon is over 4000 mls. If you add only a teaspoon to 4000ml of water and then only add 1/4000th of that solution (1ml) well of course the amount of nitrate is miniscule !
That is why it's better to think of it in dry terms. Calculate what you need in grams or 1/2 teaspoons etc and dissolve that in some water (100ml or 1 gallon - up to you) and put all of that in the tank.
You can work it out by using the calclator for a 250ml solution, then take the result for 1 ml and multiply by 250. This will tell you what you get dumping the whole solution in the water !
Better still if you look at that site, you will find a section where you can download a calculator onto your own computer. This calculator has been upgraded and actually give you the option of calculating by adding the dry fert directly to the tank, much easier to understand.

Last edited by bensaf at 06-Mar-2005 20:33

Last edited by bensaf at 06-Mar-2005 20:33

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks so much bensaf. Your post was extremely helpful! I had already downloaded the nutrient calculator and saw the calculations for adding dry fertilizers and not making a solution. It did make alot more sense and was simpler. It just seemed that everywhere I read about doing this people were making solutions, so I thought that was necessary for some reason. Doing my measurements dry will be easier especially since I have to do it for two tanks in different amounts.

Thanks Again
MO

MO,

You're welcome

I'm just passing on what I learned from Tom Barr ! I too was a little uneasy when I first considered adding all this stuff, but, as I said , it's all been good. Not only has the tank being running much much better, but it becomes a very simple automatic routine after a short while. It takes all the guessing out and brings back the fun in planted tanks. A definate win win.

A lot of the stuff about planted tanks on the net is very out of date. The general consensus now seems to be that it's not excess nutrients that cause algae rather that it's nutrient deficiencies that cause algae. Also Tom is of the opinion that a tiny bit of ammonnium will cause far more algae then large amounts of nitrate or phosphate. From what I've seen in my own tank that is certainly true. I now pump in large amounts of c02 , average is 28ppm,macros 2-3 times a week and micros 2 times a week. The difference has been quite startling. It's not about faster growth (which isn't always welcome - more trimming) but about healthier growth. One look in the tank and it is very obvious which are the leaves that grew before I used this method and which grew after ! New growth now is much bigger fuller and more colorful. There's an added lushness or "juicyness" , everything looks somehow softer, you get tempted to rip out a few leaves and make a tossed salad with it . This in itself is a helpful visual aid, you can tell how things are going just by looking at the plants, with probably more accuracy then any test kit !

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.