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a small carbon filter is all that i can aford ATM, but is it iron causing holes w/ brown edges in my aponos? how do i "treat" that?

Greenlight stump remover is also pure KNO3...I did do alot of double checking before starting to add it to my tank following plant brains advice. To me it's much safer than adding more fish, over feeding or using from another tank (that and I didnt' have another tank to take nitrAte laden water from ).

Dosing every other day or so did get to be rather of a drag so I did increase my stock and had plans for adding a BN .... still don't have the BN though :%).

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Well, I have added two buckets of my goldie tank water, which had a pretty good nitrate level since I neglected my water change last weekend .

Net effect: 20 long has an estimated 3ppm nitrates tonite (not dark enough to be 5ppm and too dark to be 0). I'm going to swap another 2 buckets tomorrow even tho the goldie tank is lower in nitrates now (about 40 ppm).

I did a major tank overhaul, pulling out all non-rooted plants, wood and decco. I clipped away the really bad stuff on the hornwort, which left me with about less than 1 bunch. I scrubbed away some of my beloved velvet algae, then ran my diatom filter to pull out that cruddy debris. I am quite certain the sudden onset of debris was rotted algae. All of my plants are rapidly losing what few strands of hair/beard that were left. This is wonderful

A few hours later and my banana plants were greener, as was my hornwort. I had added another dose of Flourish too.

I have no hair or beard algae left in my tank.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 12-Dec-2004 20:25

Thanks for that perspective. based on feedback from several people, I'll look for that stump remover stuff and stop using the Flourish Potassium.

I'm confused on the dosing tho. If I premix one gallon, how much of that gallon should I add on any given day? Should I dose a Tbsp, a cup, 1/2 gallon - you see what I'm saying?

Does anyone know what a safe limit is for my 20 long, at any one time (for those who have used this method).

I'm so glad everyone is telling me to add fish . I have really wanted to boost my school of otos. I have only 2 (had 3 and one passed due to a freak accident months ago).

Last edited by Cory_Di at 12-Dec-2004 10:13

The changes done originally, adding a stronger light bulb, adding Excel greatly increased the rate, as mentioned by one poster already(Matt).

So a NO3 dosing rate from fish waste etc is now exceeded.
You could add more fish, feed more but adding KNO3 is perhaps a better idea. I add it directly to the tank with teaspoon measurements in the dry form.

Grant's stump remove works well.This adds two things the plant needs, K+ and NO3.

I do not think you'd need more than a 1/4 teaspoon once a week per 20 gal at this light level.

If you added more light, You might need 2x a week, but not until 40w or so.

Addign a good reflector will also get more out of the existing light and likely improve your growth and health of the plants.

I'd caution against getting too carried away with dosing more N with fish, this adds NH4 first, not NO3 and while bacteria asnd plants will remove it or convert it, the NH4 also induces algae.

If you add too many fish/food to any tank, the bacteria and plants will not be able to remove it all. NH4, rather than NO3/PO4/Fe etc is the cause for algae blooms if you want to blame something on being excess.

Otherwise, plants do poorly at levels that are too low.
Which would starve first, the cow(plants) or the mouse(algae)?

Feed the plants enough.
I do not think your light and growth are in need of PO4/traces at this point, but that would be the next step.

As you increase the growth rates, the other nutrient uptake down the line will also being increased.

So more light=more CO2 demand= more NO3=>K=>GH(Ca/Mg)=> PO4=> Traces.

These are relatively easy to add and dose though, CO2 is the toughest thing for most folks.

regards,
Tom Barr

Now there's a thought. My goldie tank is ripe with nitrates and is due for a water change. They are disease free so that may be a good temporary solution - to add a couple gallons of that.

Ive added water from another of my tanks with a lot of nitrates to my tanks with 0 nitrates so my plants have something to munch on.

Ok - what about this?

Flourish Nitrogen

I'm a little leary putting fertilizers in the tank that aren't meant for aquarium use, simply for the reason that there may be something added that wouldn't be safe (long term).

I've got a lot of that velvety algae that I love so much (and my otos love it more). But, maybe I need to clear some of it.

One thing I've noticed since the nitrate disappeared: All that hair algae has turned to an ugly dusty, crumbly, web all over everything. There is debris all over my tank from where it apparently rotted. The moment anything stirs it up, it's all over the place. I'm going to run my diatom filter tonight and stir it up like crazy to get it out. That thing will polish the tank in about 20 minutes .

I think I need to do something fast with nitrogen tho, but I see that the banana leaves are less pale after adding Flourish again last night. I added some today again. There is nitrogen in Flourish. But the hornwort looks quite sickly. The banana's may have found the Flourish Tabs I planted in the substrate after seeing significant root structure under the tank. My Val is also looking great, as is the mystery plant.

Incidentally, I think my mystery plant is either some type of hygrophila or rotala. Whatever it is, it does very well, with rapid growth under relatively low lighting (I have a 20w gro light in a 20 long). It actually grows faster than hornwort. I've tried to figure out how to deal with it and never thought to cut it short to make it bushy. That is occuring now and it's actually looking quite attractive. It grows branches when cut.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 11-Dec-2004 10:30

yea, but the holes i'm talking about are in the middle of the leaves, and could i take the carbon out, yet leave the bag in for the bacterial colony?
i'll try to get some pics of the tank and plants 2morrow


Last edited by dakafall at 11-Dec-2004 02:38

Have a look @ [link=this]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/51324.html?200412101752" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link]

The carbon is removing the nutrients that your plants need, I'd reccomend removing the carbon from the filter.

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I'm stumped. My tank is slightly over stocked and I have always had to do weekly water changes of nearly 20% to keep my nitrates in check (5-15ppm). More often than not, I had them floating up to 20-25 without realizing it, after adding more fish.

For the past week and a half, I have had zero, zip, nata nitrates. I have all the same plants that have been there for over a year, and I even cut down on the volume of each in recent weeks.

- hornwort
- java fern
- java moss
- anubias nana
- one lonely tiger val bunch
- mystery plant that has grown like a weed since I got it with the val about 8 months ago.
- 3 Banana plants added about 3 weeks ago.

I actually trimmed away much of the hornwort and mystery plant until i was down until I was just under two bunches of hornwort and about one bunch of mystery plant.

Is it the banana plants that suddenly soaked up all of my nitrates?

Here are some other changes I've done recently:

- changed bulb from a PowerGlo to a FloraGlo about 5 weeks ago (my hair algae has all but disappeared )

- began adding Flourish Excel daily, along with daily iron and potassium. I just started adding Flourish Trace (twice weekly) before I noticed my nitrates were zero and I add just plain flourish weekly.

I know I need nitrate and I and I can see the plants fading rapidly - all of them. I don't know if I can get a rapid source. Can I add more flourish for the nitrogen without getting into too much trouble - like daily or every other day?

Is it possible that some of the nutrients I'm adding enabled the plants to finally take up the nitrate? It seemed odd to have difficulty keeping nitrates in check with so many plants in the tank.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 10-Dec-2004 20:59

A large bottle was less than $5. Since one teaspoon mixed with a gallon of water should give you over 100ppm of nitrAtes it's going to last a good long time.

You test the solution to figure out the PPM of nitrAte. You don't want to overdose the tank . Since carbon doesn't remove nitrAtes from your tank there's no worry about it removing what you add. Carbon in a planted tank is often not the best idea for the plants as it will absorb much of the ferts you add.

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Last edited by Babelfish at 11-Dec-2004 02:18

especially 40ft of it in a 10gallon tank, how much might some of that tree stump remover cost? how would you "test" your solution, what would you "test" 4? and would active carbon remove it? and also how would you dose iron into the tank, i had a friend tell me that the little brown holes in the plant leaves comes from and iron deficiancy? or is that even the cause? might it be the hi level of light, and low level of co2?

Lacking nitrates leads to no end of cynobacteria issues.

Even without ferts hornwort will easily suck a tank dry.. where nitrates are concerned anyway .

Greenlight tree stump remover, the powder from Lowes DIY stores, mixed 1 teaspoonn to 1 gallon of water in a jug (NOT directly into the tank) test your solution then dose the tank slowly adding a bit @a time.

Start adding ASAP, once BGA gets it's little cells into your tank it's a pain to get rid of .

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Considering how none of the above list (save the hornwort) is a heavy nitrate feeder, I forsee little change in her aquarium, except, of course, her fish being that much more happy. Besides, there are many other forms of non protein nitrogenous compounds avaible for the other plants (ammonia/ium)--it seems that fertilizers containing any one of these given compounds will yield similar results. Lack of nitrates in a fairly heavily stocked tank is likely the cause of the lack of a certain nutrient in the tank, which the plant then compensates for by uptaking other nutrients---this natural "phenomenon" is observed with a certain degree of regularity amongst agriculturally important plants. If you're really all that concerned, you could just start dosing N03/ferts...or overfeed .

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 11-Dec-2004 00:59

Plants consume nitrates...it's one of their main food sources. If you take grass away from the cow, it starves...it's the same with plants

Why are you worried about lacking nitrates?

I think the fact that you started adding flourish excel (a carbon source, normally the limiting nutrient) plants have most likely been able to uptake more nitrate for their nitrogen needs.

A ready supply of nitrogen comes in the form of KNO3, or stump remover. I have never had to do this, so I cannot suggest a brand(but pancake did), but I think home depot or a similar store will have what you want. Just check the ingredients for anything that might cause your fish harm.

I'm glad I read your post, and I'm glad you mentioned the fact that you switched your bulb and your algea disappeared. I was going to replace a bulb this weekend anyways just for lack of anything else to help clear out my algae, but now I know what I'll replace it with!

Thanks, and HTH

matt

Last edited by mattyboombatty at 10-Dec-2004 23:11

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

i have that same problem i have a 10g w/ ~40ft of hornwort, 2 dwarf lillys, 6 aponos, tons of duck weed ~10ft of anacharis 6.5 wpg

You can fix the problem temporarily by moving a few fish from other tanks into it, and/or taking water from other tanks and putting it in. If your tap water has nitrates or ammonia you can do a waterchange.

Babel uses "Greenlight Tree Stump Remover". It's a powdered form of nitrates that comes in a bottle. You can get it at Lowes I belive. You might want to give Babel a PM and she can help ya out