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The poor man's flourite is kitty litter. Do a google search on kitty litter and substrate for the pros and cons. It has to be non-perfumed no additive ordinary clay kitty litter

Thanks a lot man! Frank has also helped my many a time. I guess I'll get those fertilizer tabs. Appreciate it.

Last edited by fishnewbie at 05-Oct-2004 17:14

I have 135 watts of light, which is 2.6 watts per gallon.
Just try to avoid the more expensive plants that are like red, or fluffy, or require colder water, like cabomba. (However lots of people get it to grow in tropical tanks I suppose).
Amazon sword will definetly grow in 2 wpg. Just be careful which type you pick, some of the more ornate ones I think need more like 3+wpg.
Heres a great website someone on here gave the link to me before, and it greatly helped me in choosing what plants I would buy, and what to look for. Also, if you see a plant you like, and the person lifts it out of the water and it has potato like clear white gooey lookin tubers on it, tell em to toss it back in, its likely a terrestrial plant.
If you have any questions feel free to ask away, and some other people on here have great plant advice too- Bensaf, Frank, Bonke - just a few of the plant gurus on here who have helped me out a lot.
Nutrafin makes a great plant fertilizer stick, they are 7.99 for 6, but they last about a year or so, just stick one under each amazon sword, and under other root feeding plants. Flourish and Flourish Excel are also great liquid ferts, for leaf feeding plants like Wisteria, Hygro Polysperma, and Parrots feather.
Heres that link:
http://www.tropica.com

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WOW, thanks for the nice long post SneakyPete(Koran)! What is you're watts per gallon on that tank of yours? I will be getting a 130watt light so that's almost 2wpg combined with my 40watt that I already have. I have some wisteria in my 10gallon. I hope amazon swords can grow at 2wpg. YOur tank looks awesome. Thanks for the help.



Last edited by fishnewbie at 04-Oct-2004 14:27

[font color="#800080"]Hi Fish Newbie!
Dont give up on this idea! I think you can do it. I dont have much money even though im 25, and I managed to set up a 90g without too much expense.
First, the light, I think you could probably go with a 48 inch long (if your tank is that big or bigger) compact flourescent. You should be able to get one for around 200 Canadian. (175? or so American). I have a 48 inch light on top of my 60 inch long tank. My solution is to just plant the lowest light plants at either end, and the high light plants in the middle. I supplemented the lack of live plants there would be at the beginning with a large peice of driftwood, a large cave (also wood, and river driftwood is free!), and started slowly. I planted first some wisteria from my 25g planted and 10g planted tanks. Wisteria is fast growing and will fill in those lower light areas. Great plant, bushy and jungle like. I then added cheaper plants like Giant Hygrophilia (which i found out is actually hygro polysperma). I added my 3 amazon swords (which was bought at 10 bucks potted, but was quickly and easily divided into 3 large plants (now has root balls about 3 inches around and each plant is 8-10 inches in diamter. Over time I have just started filling in my empty spots. I look at as many fish stores as I can, to find the best prices and deals on plants. Barter!! If you see a plant you like that is like 5.99 and you want to buy say 6 of them, say hey, If I buy six of those, will you give em to me for 4 bucks a peice? That just saved you 10 bucks, and got you more plants. Of course this works better on smaller stores, and even if they wont give you that good of a deal, it is highly likely they will give you something off for buying more. This also works with fish you purchase if you get to know the people at the store and become a "regular".
Some good plants for you that I like are "Hygrophilia anything," amazon swords, wisteria, hair grass, anubias (more expensive but nice plants), vallisneria spiral and americana, "jungle val", marimo/moss balls, myriophyllium, lotus, aponogentons, cryptocornes of various species.
Also, another idea, when I set up my 25g it was a gift and I was pretty much broke. I saw a sale on Plastic plants at Petcetera, bought a bunch, bought some at walmart, and then after a couple months when I had a little more money, I started slowly phasing out the plastic ones by bringing in cheap fast growing plants (wisteria mostly). It took me about a year but was a nicely planted tank.
I will show you some pics of my tanks here, so you can see some idea on how to go about the immense job of a planted 90 without too much cost:
Started 90g with large driftwood free from river
Slowly planted it
Now it has more plants in it, 6 hairgrass plants, 4 more java fern plants, a huge anubias something, looks sorta like a sword plant but with thicker waxier leaves, and stiffer stems, and some other assorted plants. I will post another pic for your later this week if I can. Just go slowly at it, and let the results develop. C02 isnt really necessary as long as you have good gravel fertilizer sticks and a good liquid supplement to start you off.
I hope any of this might be of use to u!
-Koran.
[/font]

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260 watts. is it incandecent light or florecent lights?
if it says florecent look at the watt usage not what the package says its equivalent too. for example it might say equivalent to 75 watts but only uses 25, then its really 25 and thats what you would use to figure it out. also check whats the k rating.

low light plants are alot easier to care for but they grow slowly and alot of times are very expensive.

Last edited by AW0L at 02-Oct-2004 18:24

Last edited by AW0L at 02-Oct-2004 18:31

fish: good luck with what ever you do.

texas: every post you read and any book you read that touches on this subject will tell you to get the biggest tank you can afford. not only does it make water quality less of an issue it also gives you room to grow and may not have you wanting for a bigger tank a few months down the road.


chris

EDIT: I just don't feel right about spending $500 for the plant stuff when my parents are saving for college and a car for my sisters and I. Even after buying my 90 gallon I felt stressed about spending $500. That's a lot of money to invest in fish when I only got my first 10g tank in Feb., even though I've researched a ton.

Yeah.... I might be getting a 130 watt light system this weekend so I can grow a lot more plants! I don't think I'm ready to use a Co2 system or need to use flourite... I know next to nothing about plants except wpg. If I get enough fish I think there should be almost sufficient fertilizer, but of course, not as good as flourite. I got a BN pleco 2 days ago and its doing fine. I need to get some more fish! Can't wait to get my BGK(I'll be getting that last) Luckily my mom is volunteering to get the lights sometime.(she loves fish now). Things seem to be working our for the best now.



Last edited by fishnewbie at 01-Oct-2004 20:50

Odd, i've NEVER heard of that rule...A well put together 90-100 gallon setup ( complete, fish, bedding, Co2, lighting, plants ) is at least a grand. At 14, I wouldn't have even dreamed of spending that much.

a general rule is start as big as you can. you did the right thing, now just take your time, everything does not have to done at once.


chris

14 with a 90 gallon considering full fluroite bed, compact plant bulbs/housing, not to mention the plants, fish and a canister CO2 system?...Wow...

Im 22 and don't have the money to throw around for that, heck, I won't even do a 90 gallon as again, I don't have the money to throw around...heh.

But, good luck anyways, start smaller next time mate.

I have an idea, don't give up on your dream tank. If you go with something you don't like then you will still be wishing for it and you may futher regret the new tank. My idea is that if you like the plant idea, start the tank you want. Granted the plants will not be at optimal and there will be some you have no success with but you will still have what you want. In the meantime, help neighbors with lawn work, clean your house, do something to earn extra money. I promise you, when your parents see how hard you are working acheive your goal they will probably offer to help pay for the co2.

In any case good luck


chris

Yeah I've got some Java ferns growning on my driftwood right now. I have some Apon bulbs in my 10gal that I could transfer to the 90. They're pretty sweet. Thanks for the good ideas all. Keep 'em coming, if u have anymore.

I'm planning on getting a 260 watt light system for my 90 gallon tank. I will also be keeping my current 40 watt plant light/hood on there. So that's a total of 300watts which is 3.3wpg. I am trying to set up a tank with an Amazonian theme. What plants would be good for that? They don't have to be all from south america but I want it to look kinda like a jungle.

Now for the main question: Will I neeed a Co2 system and if so which one should I get? How much would that cost? Also should I add a layer of flourite? I kinda want to but I'm not sure how I would do this with my fish and decor in there.... I want to make up my mind before I get too far ahead of myself and get all my fish.

I'm only 14 years old, and I dont really know what I'm doing, hehe . After having my 10gal planted(in my avatar) I feel like I can't have a tank without plants.

Sorry for all the questions, I just hope to get a few answers. Thanks a million.

-Daniel

Or you could go with a lightly play-sanded substrate with pieces of driftwood to which you could attach anubius, java fern, etc---not exactly an amazon jungle but very visually appealing and cost effective(an inch-inch and a half of sand+ drifwood + plants should only get to around 50 bucks max).

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 26-Sep-2004 14:28

ok, as for lighting, i have a 55 gallon with .6 watts per gallon and no flourite. and i have plants anywhere from a red lotus to anacharis and they are thriving. my suggestion is starting wtih those bulbs from walmart ($2.67 a box) once those bloom you can see if and what types of plants will survive. they sell both APONS and LILLIES and i have both and they are starting to take over my tank. also depending on where the tank is ( how close to a window) you can get alot of indirect sunlight so you may eevn be able to get some plants that need higher light. but ONLY buy a couple of plants and a few bulbs to start with and with uner 15.00 you can figure out what will live and what wont.

me

FishNewbie -- all is not lost. I would suggest you go low light, about 1.5 watts per gallon. You can use plain gravel and once the fish poop gets all mixed up inside, the plants won't know the difference from flourite or gravel.

You can also buy the book The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad, and follow her method for potting soil natural tanks. Just remember if you use her method, use it exactly. It doesn't tend to work as well when you only use bits and pieces of her theory.

Don't give up -- you can have a beautiful, healthy planted tank in no time at all!

AP English classes tend to help

Yeah, I was just thinking that I wished I had gotten a 29 gallon instead. You're writing skills are really good BTW, lol.

But they didn't go to waste

You've learned something, and you might want to remember it if you do decide to do a tank such as this in the future.

I learned from it too. I didn't know what laterite was until now. I figured it was a substrate, similar to flourite, but I was wrong. I might just have to get some laterite now

As a 14 year old myself, I know how frustrating it is to be too poor to afford what you want to get. A few words of adivice: Try smaller, shorter planted tanks (10g's, 20g longs, etc). The smaller the tank, the cheaper it is to light, plant, and maintain...and they can still look stunning. Get a job (if you can find a good one for people our age)...they provide a great source of income

Good luck