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Hey Tryst - just got some sparkling gouramis in, if you are still interested.

Anyways I also wanted to bump this up and get an update

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

DAY 8

I've got a bad case of collectoritis.

Decided the tank needed a little structure so I tied some java moss onto a few rocks I had with thread. Then my grandpa offered to take me to the LFS this afternoon, and of course I couldn't leave without buying anything. I got a really good deal, spent a total of $19.50.

New plants:
Anubias barteri var. nana
what was sold as Anubias barteri var. caladiifolia ''1705'' but I'm not sure this is the correct ID
Bacopa monnieri
Hygrophila corymbosa ''Siamensis''
Microsorum pteropus (java fern)

Most of these will be moved out of the tank as it starts to fill in more and placed in a lower light setup.

Full tank shots:





Anubias nana and crypts:



"Other" anubias:



Hygrophila corymbosa v. "siamensis"



Ragged looking java fern:



And the other thing I need to report: I picked up a trio of otos for the tank as well. I drip acclimatized them and they are settling in nicely.

Here's one resting on some bacopa:







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looking good tryst :88)

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

Awesome pics ! Your tank is lookin great !

Re all that info on the yeast..

I put my sugar, yeast, baking soda in then top with tank water. (78F) Stir until I see no sugar then hang on the tank, I'll get bubbles in 5 min to an hour.. Plus tankwater has some nutrients the yeast can use for food Good for 3 weeks or so.

ps - your info on use of the check valve in your airhose answered a question for me that I needed answered, plus the aquascaping tips I sure can use when I scape the new tank, I'll read it ALL over later when not at work LOL !



Last edited by DaFishMan at 03-Aug-2005 09:39

The Amazon Nut...

Day 19

Got my stuff from http://www.gregwatson.com on Friday and started dosing with it instead of my KNO3 and some excel. The plants have showed an improvement with it in only 2 days, growing much faster. I'm sure I didn't have enough K going in, probably lacking in other areas as well.

I painted a blue background that was actually supposed to be a lot lighter than what it looks like on the tank.... Surprise surprise I don't like it! I also didn't like how the paper warps a bit when you paint it, it looks cool if you're painting faux slate or moss or something but that wasn't the look I was going for. So I am going to make another one, use different paper and lighten the colour a bit, or I might even make something to look like a moss wall when the tank is photographed...a bit of optical illusion I guess.

Anyway here are the new pics:







EDIT: pardon the half eaten oto brocolli in the bottom right they munched all of the green leafy bits off it.....guess I should remove stuff like that before I take tank pictures.

I have also been experimenting with different CO2 reactors/diffusers. I am currently using a wooden air stone that I bought from the LFS, the owner, Jerry, said they are usually used for marine tanks and it works really well on the 10. I like it because it's small, I have it hidden behind the intake tube of the HOB and I'm getting ~ 30 ppm CO2 as measured by pH and KH with it. It makes a very fine mist of CO2 bubbles which are dispersed by the gentle flow of the HOB filter throughout the tank (I have the flow rate adjusted to about half strength). The "stone" cost me $2, an excellent deal if you ask me. Now if only I could convince my otos not to perch on it.

And for DFM: By not activating your mix initially you have a fairly significant number of yeast casualties, activating it gets it working in about 10 minutes and almost all of the yeast goes on to reproduce for you and make CO2. There is a reason behind most of my madness. Taking the extra 10 minutes to activate your starter culture makes a big difference for me, I have tried just mixing it all together like that and it just doesn't work as well.

The flour I added also seems to keep the yeast going a bit longer, although I think I have mentioned that it has a tendency to foam quite a bit on the first day. Oops.

The significant addition with tank water is Nitrogen, there are yeast nitrogen bases for brewers that use ammonium sulfate. Because I have a ton of it around now that I received my order from Greg Watson, I may actually try experimenting with KNO3 as a source of nitrogen in the mix. Heck my tap water has ammonia in it so I can just use that.

Last edited by trystianity at 07-Aug-2005 22:31[/font][/font][/font]

Pearling pennywort Great job Tryst, absolutely awesome. I can't wait to see your tank fill in even more ! Looks like you're the next Zen Tank Plantmasta.
(bows low)

I'll activate my next batch of yeast, just for you (and my plants) Does the new order of nutrients mean you're not using PMDD any more ? Someone close to here is supposed to be setting me up with some of those.. Are you testing all the individual nutrient levels ?

Last edited by DaFishMan at 07-Aug-2005 22:43

The Amazon Nut...

The tank is really starting to have some structure as the plants fill in. It's looking great . I've been meaning to do some work on my planted tank including compresseds CO2 a new in-line reactor with a new cannister filter and even new compact flourescent lighting. Then I think I can get real ferts from greg watson. I like the idea of using seperate ferts.

In regard to day 19: I still think that some low light plants like anubias tend to be my favorite plants, and use the fast growers to support them .

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Does the new order of nutrients mean you're not using PMDD any more ? Someone close to here is supposed to be setting me up with some of those.. Are you testing all the individual nutrient levels ?

No, I'm not testing anything except for KH/pH to find CO2

I'm just dosing each chem separately according to Tom Barr's fert program, the Estimative Index. Plants are loving it and I'm totally algae free.

[link=http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1]http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1" style="COLOR: #36af30[/link]

I made myself a spread sheet in MS excel to calculate doses with what I add and keep track of what I am dosing. Right now I do macro and trace on alternating days according to the dosage recommendations for EI on that link.

I will probably clean the spread sheet up a bit so I can calculate the strength of stock solution I'm making as well for different sized tanks. For now I just input how much of each standard stock bottle I add (KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, Plantex CSM+B w/ extra Fe - I've mixed each one to add a certain amount of each nutrient) and it calculates how many ppm of NO3, K+, Fe, PO4 I'm adding to the tank, so it makes it easy to adjust my doses. KNO3 will add some K+ along with NO3 so if I want to lower or raise my dose of it, for example, I also need to adjust my K2SO4, the spread sheet just tells me how much I need to change it. I also made it to automatically calculate CO2 from pH and KH, I like my spread sheet but you can just use online calculators. One application I like is Chuck Gadd's Planted Aquarium Calculator.

Anyway, like I said I'm just dosing within the range given by EI:

CO2 range 20-30ppm
NO3 range 5-30ppm
K+ range 10-30ppm
PO4 range 1.0-2.0 ppm
Fe 0.2-0.5ppm or higher (?)
GH range 3 degrees ~ 50ppm or higher

On my tank it's about (estimates)
CO2 30 ppm
NO3 20 ppm
K+ 20 ppm
PO4 2 ppm
Fe 0.3-0.4 ppm
GH - who knows....lots I don't really pay attention to it because it's hard...HAS to be over 50 ppm

I'm doing 50% water changes a week so I don't really have to think about testing, the tank is reset every time I do a water change. Water changes also add some Mg and Ca and stuff so I don't have to worry about any of that crashing. It's actually really easy, I just get my measuring spoons out every day and dump what I need to in the tank according to the spread sheet.

I got some help with the fert program from Bensaf and czcz, they told me EI works much better than PMDD and so far it works very well for me. I like EI specifically because once you do all of the calculations it's just a matter of adding a few mL of your chems every day, making sure your CO2 stays high and doing water changes (a LOT of pruning too because the plants go nuts!!! :%)). If you get someone else to do the calcs for you it requires almost no brain cells at all.

I would really recommend Greg Watson's chems to anyone, I ordered them, got my order in 4 days and it was the cheapest I could find anywhere. Dosing daily only costs me a couple of cents a day so I'm happy with it and the plants are too.

I've been meaning to do some work on my planted tank including compresseds CO2 a new in-line reactor with a new cannister filter and even new compact flourescent lighting.

I would love to go there, will eventually when I get the $$$ - maybe when my disability finally comes in.

In regard to day 19: I still think that some low light plants like anubias tend to be my favorite plants, and use the fast growers to support them .

I agree, I'm really liking my anubias....and when they get pearling they make a lot of HUGE bubbles! I'll try to get a pic today but it won't be easy because usually all of the O2 collects under the leaves, not sure if I can get a good camera angle of it. The only slow growing plant I'm not liking is the Bacopa, it doesn't grow quickly enough to compete with the Rotala in the corner, growing OK but I don't like the look of it in the tank. I'll be moving it soon.

My H. polysperma is responding to the ferts by growing HUGE leaves on it. It looks almost like it's suffering from gigantism. Looks cool but it's too big for my tank so I'll probably be moving it too. I need to find more small leafed plants. :%) Anybody have any spare Hemianthus spp.?

I want my plants to do really well, not just do 'okay'. Time for research so I can learn more, starting with your thread AGAIN, it's very useful.. Warning: I'm gonna have questions.

I hate algae problems I've had minor ones on and off and a major cyano hit once which almost wiped my whole tank, and know it's lack of proper nutrient management on my part. Hopefully I'll be able to avoid these things in the new 40, and make my plants flourish well, not just 'get by'.



The Amazon Nut...

the progress is looking great Tryst. Your doing a great job!

Last edited by Jubs at 26-Jul-2005 03:02

WEEK 6

I bought some plants from a hobbyist in Toronto and got them today. Sorry for the delay in updating, I wanted to make some changes to the tank and get the new plants before I took new pictures and updated the log.

Anyway, I got my plants from the hobbyist in Toronto and just got the parcel in the mail today. For $29 CAD I got:

3x3" Hemianthus callitrichoides
2 stems Limnophila aromatica
A whole lot of:
Elatine triandra
Micranthemum umbrosum
Echinodorus tenellus

All in excellent condition, very healthy without a single trace of algae or anything.

I moved a few plants out of the tank because they just weren't fitting with the scape and looked too large for the tank (also needed to make room for new additions) so:

Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Cryptocoryne sp.
Hygrophila polysperma
Bacopa monnieri
Anubias barteri v. nana
Microsorum pteropus

have all been moved out to make way for other stuff and give the current inhabitants some more growing room.

Here's a pic of the L. aromatica, just planted in the tank so the stems are curled a bit:



I also painted a faux moss background on some cardboard and stuck it on the tank. Here's a pic of the background after painting:



And the tank as of today after planting all of my new stuff. I *still* have a TON of HC and E. triandra and a bit of the other new stuff (other than the L. aromatica) left over so I have a lot of work to do on a new 2 gallon nano that I'm working on and my non CO2 tanks in the next few days.





Pardon all of the debris in the tank, it was right after planting/pruning and I hadn't skimmed the top. Plants also look a bit weird because they have just been poked at a lot with scissors and tweezers.

I took the oportunity to rescape the tank, my inspiration for the scape is a green belt and meadow in rural Canada in early Fall around the harvest. You'll all see as it grows in what I'm talking about. Sounds nutty right now but I promise it should make more sense as it grows in.

As far as algae goes, I haven't seen a single spot. At 6 wpg I would say that's an accomplishment after 6 weeks. The secret is really dosing with the Estimative Index, Tom Barr's brainchild. I am dosing quite a lot of ferts into this tank, the only thing I'm finding is that the plants seem to be sucking a bit more trace up than I had expected, I'm seeing some really minor signs of Iron and other trace deficiency in the glosso. I'm going to up my dosage of Plantex CSM+B w/ extra Fe and hopefully take care of it.

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The background is really nice. It's very dark, but has more character than just a black backround.

I can't wait to see the tank after it's all settled in .

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I can tell the Limnophila aromatica is going to look just awesome when it picks up.. This is definately a plant I want to try.. Your tank is getting better all the time

What are you using for phosphates ?

The Amazon Nut...

Generally KH2PO4 is used, some use fleet enema for the sodium PO4 in it.

You can gtet all the ferts etc from www.gregwatson.com
7$ shipping to Canada.

A 10-20$ order would last several years for most things.

Regards,
Tom Barr

the only thing I'm finding is that the plants seem to be sucking a bit more trace up than I had expected, I'm seeing some really minor signs of Iron and other trace deficiency in the glosso. I'm going to up my dosage of Plantex CSM+B w/ extra Fe and hopefully take care of it.

Trys,

NOW you know why I have to add 50mls of TMG per week


Looking good. Can't to see some pics when it grows in. Like that Elatine Almost as pretty as you

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Love the backround/:'

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Thanks for the comments everyone. About the background - I do like it but it just isn't right for the way the tank will look once everyhing grows in. I'm actually leaning toward white at this point. I think the faux moss look will be nice on another tank though, so I'm going to save the background for later.

Tom Barr's right, I am using KH2PO4 that I ordered from Greg Watson. I spent ~$30 for all of the chemicals, KH2PO4, KNO3, K2SO4 and Plantex CSM+B with extra Fe. I was very happy with the service and the price, I ordered on a Monday and recieved my order on that Friday. His chem store rules.

If anyone is considering dry chemicals for fertilization and is a bit intimidated by it, don't be intimidated. Once you do a bit of calculating (you can even get some nice person to do it for you if you ask nicely most of the time or there are good online calculators that will work it out), it's just a matter of dumping X amount of X into the tank every day. The benefit of dosing dry chems is price, first of all, and also that you get complete control of your fert routine. So if you're seeing indicators that you need to add a bit more Potassium, for example, it's very easy to modify your dosages to meet the demand. Or if you have multiple tanks with various amounts of lighting, etc. you can alter your dosing routine to fit your tank. Fertilizing isn't one-size-fits -all, in my experience, and using dry chems lets you fiddle with your ferts a bit to get the most out of your plants.

Bensaf, you're right, I can see why you would need to add that much. I was dosing the Plantex to ~ 0.33 ppm Fe so I was surprised to see any sign of trace deficiency but I'll trust my plants before established fert guidelines, I've increased the dosage to about 0.5 ppm Fe and it seems to have fixed the problem.

I do like the E. triandra and I'm having a hard time figuring out why anybody has trouble growing the stuff! It's a weed! :%) I would say it grows faster than glosso, maybe even faster than my R. rotundifolia. It grows at an insane rate in my tank. At this rate I'm going to be giving it away before long if anybody wants it. Who knows, I might even dedicate a nano tank to it because it will creep along the substrate and also grow vertically. It's a good thing it's such a nice looking plant or I would be really peeved with it because it grows so quickly. The only thing I'm having any trouble with for that plant is making it creep along the substrate. So far it has been sending up random 2" vertical stems (apparently overnight because I don't see them until they're that tall) in the middle of the foreground. I've also been finding random strands of it in my other plants....no idea how that happened but I'm not concerned.

HC also grows pretty quickly but I have to say I'm getting a bit annoyed with it because a few little stems always manage to emancipate themselves from the substrate and end up on the surface or collect on my filter intake. Most of the time I'm lazy and don't feel like replanting them right away so at least I've found that it does OK floating. In fact, having left some of it at the surface for a few days, it grows really quickly and sends a bunch of new roots off if you leave it to float, which makes planting it much easier. Given its growth rate, I'm guessing I will also have a ton of excess HC before too long.

L. aromatica is a very cool plant, it does have a distinct smell when it's out of the water (especially if you break a leaf). I can't really describe what it smells like....nice and herby I guess. That picture doesn't do justice to the colour of it. The tops of the leaves are a nice bright green and the bottoms are a deep purple colour. It grows pretty quickly as well, but not nearly as fast as the real weeds in there. The growing tips of it tend to fold upwars a bit so you can really see the purple undersides of the new leaves. It's a very striking plant.

I had a bit of a mishap today, I woke up from a nap and wasn't feeling well, brain was really foggy (ahh fibrofog, ask Calla about brain fog - she knows what I'm talking about ).... Anyway I was dosing my ferts as usual, went to grab the K2SO4 solution bottle and measured the usual amount. Only after I added it to the tank did I realize I had accidentally grabbed the KH2PO4 and just dosed about 15 ppm of Phosphate (!!! - I usually maintain about 2 ppm ) into the tank. The bottles are all clearly labeled with big BLACK writing on white labels so I felt like a complete moron. So after 2 50% water changes I should be down to about 4 ppm PO4 and everything should be fine. The only problem is that I'm now very tired and sore but I guess that's my punishment for not paying attention, it's a good lesson for me in being careful when I handle chemicals.

On the other hand I did notice a bit of green spot algae when I was doing my water change. I may permanently up my PO4 dosage a bit and see if that clears it. Plants are really sponges under 6 wpg. :%)

Last edited by trystianity at 29-Aug-2005 21:19

Hows the tank doing now?

Any more recent pics?

DAY 2

Did a bit of fiddling with the tank today. Returned a few escapees to the substrate, rinsed filter media after it took in quite a bit of silty peat stuff yesterday, removed some melty crypt leaves, etc. Tucked some escaped roots back in under the substrate where they belong, trimmed some yucky looking leaves, wiped the front glass with vinegar to get rid of water marks (but I know I missed a few spots) and. . . . .


. . . . .

. . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . .

NOTICED THE FIRST SIGNS OF LIFE IN MY NEW TANK!!!!!!

Yep that's right, only day 2 and I am already seeing a little bit of new growth. The plants have perked up a bit from yesterday as you can see in the full tank shot:



The Rotala rotundifolia is doing especially well (I really like this plant) and I am seeing a bit of new growth on the tips of the stems.



I wasn't sure if the Pogostemon stellata was going to make it. All of the leaves had fallen off in shipping for a week so it was reduced to bare stems. Today I have a bit more hope for it because it is starting to show signs of life! In this pic you can see the new side shoots that have formed today and just barely see the tiny emergent buds on the sides of each stem segment. I am really happy, I'm not going to get my hopes up TOO much but at least it is something. I'll be content if I can save even one little stem because eventually I'll be able to propagate a bunch of it from it.



I think the biggest bit of happy news for me today was seeing a few new cute little glosso sprouts on little cute runners!!!! I am really excited and amazed that it is sprouting new leaves already, I took like 7 pictures of them. Soon I hope it grows into a nice thick carpet, even though it was a complete ]:| to plant I am already in love with it. As long as it keeps behaving I may have myself a new favourite plant. It is early but I am already envisioning an amano enspired glosso-only tank, lush green carpet seviced by a whole lot of fw shrimp. Anyway here are the pics of the glosso babies:







I'm praying to the fishy gods that I won't be able to see that substrate soon enough.

As far as the prices of things go, I went by local prices. Any aquarium equipment seems to be ridiculously priced here, and for some reason local aquarists don't seem all that interested in planted tanks so there is a very limited market and supply of planted tank paraphenalia. For most items you can expect to pay about double what you would if you were ordering it online in the USA here for some reason, so keeping costs down is really important for me. Well that and the fact that I don't and can't work so my income is extremely limited.

As far as the choice of substrate goes, it wasn't simply arbitrary. A lot of research and thought went into it and I do have to say that it is a bit of an experiment on my part. I have been working with a lot of terrestrial plants, trying out propogation methods (some in plain water, some in soil, and some in moist peat). The inspiration for the peat substrate came from a few different sources, a lot of online articles and the success I have had in using it for terrestrial plants. I have tomato plants that look like little shrubs this year!

One especially good article that gives a good overview of planted tank substrate properties is at [link=http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat.htm#peat]http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat.htm#peat" style="COLOR: #36af30[/link]. Take note, in particular, of the comparison of CEC for different media. Peat is especially high while being really lightweight (doesn't compact), is very rich in organic matter and I have seen a lot of really respected aquarists note excellent results with it. Laterite is a very good source of Fe in planted tanks and I have had nothing but good results in using it as well. One other thing to take a look at in that article is the preference of aquarium plants to be rooted in anaerobic conditions. By using the peat and very fine gravel I am hoping to accomplish this especially toward the back of the tank where the substrate is about 4" thick. All in all that article is a very good read with an impressive list of contributors. I'm planning on getting a book from amazon.ca soon, "The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad, there is supposed to be a lot of good info in there about soil based substrates much like the one I am using.

So I didn't go with eco-complete not only because for $50 a bag it is way out of my budget (and for that price it had better contain essence of amano or something), but also because I wanted to experiment with my own mix.

Thanks matty, the tetras and apistos sound neat but a little too similar to what I was keeping in the 10 last year. Rams and cardinal tetras.... So this time I want something a little different..... I have been making a mental list. By any chance does the store you work at sell sparkling gouramis?

If I can't get those a few other choices I was thinking about:

Cherry Barbs
Endlers
Shrimp only
some sort of wild betta [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]

Good job, and good luck. I want to see pictures of it when you finish. Also, what fertilization are you going to use, and are you putting fish in there, and if so which species?