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Hi,
ive recently set up a new heavily planted tank.
Most of the plants (cabomba, microphyllum, ech. tennullus) are growing very fast and look in good condition, however for some reason the amazons I keep putting in are not lasting long. Within a couple of days the leaves have gone yellow and eventually die off.

I have put a dry fertiliser under my substrate, im injecting co2 (20ppm) and my lighting is 2 W.P.G, also on a weekly basic I am adding tablets to the substrates.
After speaking to someone, they informed me that I may be to do with the lights i am using as Amazons grow well in the yellow spectrum and the lights I have are more in the red and green spectrum.

Can anyone advise me on what I am doing wrong?

All plants I have ever tried to grow do well under a "daylight" spectrum of lighting. This includes a few different types of sword plants. Daylight spectrum is about 6500 Kelvin. Always check the Kelvin temperature rating on a flourescent bulb before using it.

You said you put root tabs in weekly - this sounds like overkill to me. Root tabs should last you quite a while. The directions should recomend to you how often to put new ones in. Sword plants also like a bit of iron, so make sure that the plant tabs you are using contain iron.

Last edited by mattyboombatty at 21-Aug-2005 18:54

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi Paddy,

Been a while

It's definately not the lights.

With the good Co2 levels that you have what ferts are you using (apart from the tabs) ?

That kind of Co2 will allow the plants to use up nutrients quickly and you should really be dosing Nitrate, Phosphate and Micros very regularly. Swords are good nitrate suckers.
You may have bottomed out on something. Despite the "swords are heavy root feeders" myth, they will take most of their nitrate from the water column through the leaves.

Let us know your levels and we can take it from there.

One possiblity is that the sword plants you bought were grown emmersed. What you are seeing may not be the plant dying but just adjusting to submerrsed conditions. The old leaves will die off but will replaced by new submersed growth leaves. Check the crown for new leaves shooting up. If there are just leave the plant there and it will come nicely, just takes a bit longer.

The only Tennellus swords I can find here are grown out of water. It's a pain, as the plant looks horrible while going through the transition, like a bunch of dying plants, but they come back nice. It can take a couple of months to fully go through the process. Just keep trimming off the dying leaves and check for new shoots.


Last edited by bensaf at 21-Aug-2005 21:48

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi Bensaf,

thanks for the help, thats really helpful.
When i tested my water last week the results were:
pH - 6.5
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
Ammonia - 0

I was thinking that the reason that they dont seem to be lasting long is due to a lack of nitrogen in the water. I tried cutting back all the dead leaves away first of all and giving the leaves chance to grow, but as soon as the leaves started to come through they died off.
What is the safest way of adding nitrogen into the tank?
Apart from the tabs I am using, i am also adding a liquid fertiliser.

Does this help you understand my situation anymore Bensaf?

Nitrate - 0

Thought so.

Paddy I can't emphasise enough how huge a problem this is in a planted tank. The plants are starving to death. I'm surprised you haven't had any serious algae problems. Chances are your Phosphate has bottomed out too.

The good news - it's very easy and cheap to fix and thereafter keep things running smoothly.

You need to get nitrogen and phosphate in there and quickly. There's a number of options.

For Nitrate you need to add KNO3 Potassium Nitrate.
This can be bought as a dry chemicalor if buy Grants Stump Remover from a Home Depot it's pure KNO3.

For Phosphate you need to add KH2PO4 Mono Potassium Phosphate.
Again can be bough as a dry chem or if you're not shy go to a pharmacy and buy Fleets Enema solution.

Seachem also have Flourish Nitrogen and Flourish Phosphorus which is basically the above chemicals with water. It will do the job just as well but is the more expensive option long term.

You can buy all the dry ferts online at http://www.gregwatson.com/DryAquaticFertilizers.asp
Highly recommended, Greg's one of us a dedicated hobbyist not in it for the money.
Literally a couple of bucks gets you a few years supply.

Get these ferts as quickly as possible

Once you get the ferts you can calculate the dosage using a calculator you can download onto your computer from here :http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm
Or contact me and I'll talk you through the dosage.

You'll also need a good liquid fert like Flourish or Tropica Mastergrow or any like liquid.
Some Potassium from Potassium Chloride or Potassium Suplphate would be nice but not totally neccessary (both the KNO3 ans KH2PO4 have good amounts of Potassium)

Get the Nitrates back up to 10-20ppm and Phosphate to 1-2 ppm.

Then keep them at that level by following a fert schedule
Day 1 50% water change add KNO3 and KH2PO4
Day 2 Liquid fert
Day 3 KNO3 and KH2PO4
Day 4 Liquid fert
Day 5 KNO3 and KH2PO4
Day 6 Liquid fert
Day 7 rest
then start over again with the 50% water change and dosing.

Very simple. Dosing takes literally one minute per day. No test kits required. You have EVERYTHING the plant needs. Just make sure GH is 3 dgh or above to ensure enough calcium. With your light and Co2 at at 20-30ppm the plants will go nuts, very healthy and very few problems with algae.

But you need to act quickly the lack of Nitrate is a serious problem that will bring the tank crashing down eventually.

Get back when you have the ferts and we'll go thru the dosing in more detail

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ben,

thats great
thanks alot!

Ive just ordered some Potassium Nitrate, Mono Potassium Phospahate and also some Potassium Sulphate as you have suggested. They hopefully should be here by Wednesday.
I already have some good liquid ferts.
I will contact you as soon as they arrive and you can go through what exactly i need to do.

Thanks again

Good news Paddy

Just get back to me when you receive them and we'll work out the dosing. What size tank are we talking here and how is it planted - lightly/moderately/heavily/oh my God the fish are squished against the glass ?

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ben,

i dont know if you got my pm to you earlier on today.
Ive just got back home from work and the fertilisers were there waiting for me!

My tank is just over 29 gallon (36' long x 12' wide x 18' high) and it is heavily planted. Can you tell me the dose rates please and also a little weekly timetable of what i need to do.

Thanks

Paddy

Paddy,

Check your PM. I gave you numbers to dose straight away to get back up to good levels.

I'll work out the normal routine dosage and timetable and get back to you later (in the office at the moment )

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ok lets do this thing

Get 2 bottles.

Mix 5 teaspoons of KNO3 and 250ml of water.Put in one bottle.

Mix 1 teaspoon of KH2PO4 and 250ml water. Put in the other bottle.

Label them, you don't want to mix them up

You then follow a routine like below:

Sunday: Prune, clean glass etc. 50% water change. Add 15ml of the Kno3 solution + 10ml of the KH2PO4 solution + 1/4 teaspoon of the Potassium Sulphate.

Monday: 5mls of your liquid fert.

Tues: 10mls KNO3 solution + 10 mls of KH2PO4 solution.

Weds: 5mls of your liquid fert.

Thurs:10mls KNO3 solution + 10 mls of KH2PO4 solution.

Fri:5mls of your liquid fert.

Sat; Have a beer , enjoy the tank. No need to add anything.

Do this every week.

Make sure co2 in the 20-30ppm range. GH 3dgh or above.Lights on 10-12hours per day.

I only add the potassium once as the Nitrate and phosphate solution both have agood hit of Potassium and will keep it topped up.

Dosing takes about 1 minute per day.

No need for test kits.

As you get into it you can tweak and test if you want to fine tune the dosage. But don't sweat the dosage. The purpose is provide all the plant needs on a constant basis. An excess won't hurt anything (as long as you don't go completely nuts!). A deficiency will kill ya. The purpose of the 50% water change is to re-set the tank each week making sure nothing builds up and takes out excess nutrients the plants haven't used. It's simple, effective. You know the plants have everything they require and that nothing is going to get out of hand. As you get a feel for the plants response and uptake you can reduce/increease the water change as you see fit.

That's it. A few minutes a week and now you can grow pretty much anything with very few issues. No need to worry about algae.You can sit back and enjoy the tank. Sharpen your pruning scissors you're going to need them
Watch those swords grow.

Please keep us updated on the progress of the tank. I'm sure some people are a bit skeptical/wary about adding Nitrate and Phosphate. This could be a good case study. Let us know how it goes and what improvements you see.

The bill is in the post

Last edited by bensaf at 24-Aug-2005 09:08

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

that is excellant, thank you very much.
I will e-mail you a photo of my tank at present just so you can see what its looking like before i start with the routine.

Then I will update you every couple of weeks just so you can see how its doing.

You can post the photos on here just to show all the people who are abit wary of this routine.

thanks again

Paddy