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I'm familiar with liquid fertilisers, but can you use substrate to fertilise aquarium plants? In my experience aquarium plants need a substrate fertiliser to thrive rather than just a liquid fertiliser. I've read that you can use lucernite. This was a type of nutrient rich clay for hydroponic growing systems. However it is no longer available. I also read in an aquarium book dated back to the sixties that you can use a layer of sheep manure in the bottom of the tank if you cover it over with another substrate. What is your view on that?

I also read in an aquarium book dated back to the sixties that you can use a layer of sheep manure in the bottom of the tank if you cover it over with another substrate. What is your view on that?

My view on that would be

Sounds way too organic and full of ammonia.

To be honest I don't really bother with substrate ferts. Research seems to show that plants will extract nutrients thru the leaves and only use the roots when the water column is "lean".

I agree that liquid ferts are not enough by themselves so I dose the water column with N,P,and K. Works fine, even for those plants that are supposed "heavy root feeders"

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Luke,

You know, I heard about that manure thing as well, not necessarily from sheep though. It sure contains a lot of half digested plant matter which would make a good fertilizer.

Nevertheless, I would be worried about the proper dosing, not to mention that the idea somehow grosses me out.

Ingo

EDIT: Bensaf, thank's for the info on the ferts, saves me the worries of when it would be time to use plant sticks.

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 14-Aug-2005 06:17

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I also heared that the manure of Rabbits is good for aquaric plants, but i never tried it.


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OoO I just read an article in TFH somewhere that people tinkered with adding manure in their aquariums...wasnt on manure, but it mentioned it

"I also heared that the manure of Rabbits is good for aquaric plants, but i never tried it. "

Hahahha, rabbit poop looks like gravel too!

Never forget that a lot of what was written about planted tanks in the past was untested rubbish. Things have changed over the past couple of years and the understanding of how a planted tank works has grown considerably. They used to say adding Nitrate and Phosphate was a recipe for disaster. They used to say the world was flat.

To me whether or sheep manure or putting a lucky rabbits foot in the tank works or not is beside the point. It's simply not neccessary.

We've reached the point where with proper lighting, Co2 and a handful of very cheap dry ferts it's possible to grow anything pretty much hassle free. Why bother with bring sheep poop into your living room ?

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

To me whether or sheep manure or putting a lucky rabbits foot in the tank works or not is beside the point. It's simply not neccessary.

Manure will work, just in very small quantities as it is very very high in organics and will pack a lot of Nitrogen (mostly ammonia especially if it isn't composted). I wouldn't use it just because it is really more trouble than it's worth! Use too much and your plants could all burn and die, leaving you with a nice healthy tank full of algae. If algae farming is your thing then go for it. If not there are easier, better options. Old timers liked things like manure because they were easy to get, in this day and age things like that are really not necessary and too much work.

If you're interested in soil substrates, Diana Walstad's "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" is THE resource. Her methods are a bit different from what most use, low light, no CO2, heavily reliant on the substrate. Even if you don't aggree with her methods her book is still recommended because she goes into the scientific side of things a lot farther than most books.

A good tech. article on substrate properties:

[link=http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat.htm]http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat.htm" style="COLOR: #36af30[/link]

That article is a bit outdated but a lot of it is still valid.

Similar article with substrate analysis:

[link=http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm]http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm" style="COLOR: #36af30[/link]

Again a bit outdated, analysis is still good (probably more than you need to know).

I do like to use a nutritious substrate personally, some people do, some don't. My personal favoutite mix right now is fine gravel, peat moss, some old tank mulm and laterite. It works well for me, not too messy once the tank is filled and running although it does cloud up a bit when you first set it up. My plants go nuts in this mix, acts like an aged substrate rather than a brand new one. I will also occasionally add some Aquarium Pharm. Root Tabs right near the base of heavy substrate feeders, aopongetons, swords, etc.

I think substrate is really personal preference for most people, some people swear by purchased mixes like eco complete or fluorite, some people use totally inert substrate (gravel), some like soil, some like to roll their own mixes (like me). And yes, you will occasionally (very occasionally) still find the rare old timer dumping manure into his/her tanks.

No sheep *&*& in my tankies.

Aquarium Pharm. Root Tabs

I have an alternative suggestion,
Jobe's Plant Spikes (for lush palms and ferns) broken into quarters way cheaper, works great.. Have not done an analysis over which has more what or which is better.. But they really worked for me.. You should have seen the root systems in my old tank.

The Amazon Nut...

I use Jobes Plant Spikes for Houseplants and Lush Ferns.
They need to be replaced about once every 3 months or so.
I just poke em down under the plants I want to feed.
Works great. They are cheap too.


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I like how I was eating a slice of pizza just as I read the first post. Strangely ehough, I HAVE heard of individuals using manure for substrate fertilizer. Apparently, when doused with moisture, the stuff becomes all the more odiferous, but does not cloud the water column a great deal. Also the breakdown of such large amounts of waste is relatively unpredictable and can release large amounts of unsavory nitrogenous toxins in a short amount of time-a welcoming mat for algae of all sorts.

Brazilian folks did a worm casting and then boiled it for 15 minutes and added that to their tanks. But they had little KNO3, test kits, KH2PO4 etc.

The boiling will oxidize the NH4 into NO3.

You can let bacteria do this in shallow wet pan outside for 3 weeks etc also.

The best Crypt grower in the world used Sheep manure and copper sulfate(higher than you'd ever think).

As long as the plant's have some nutrients somewhere, things will work.

You can do DW's method without the soil also, adding small amounts once a week or so to the water column.

The soil and substrate method eventually runs out of nutrients and needed redone, or switched over to the water column dosing method.

Regards,
Tom Barr