FishProfiles.com Message Forums

A few of you might remember that I ran a thread with this heading a few months ago. The thread dealt with why it might be difficult to keep some aquatic plants thriving for a long time. Don't get me wrong I have a planted tank that is thriving now, due to co2, lighting, etc., but it seems like alot has to be done to keep these plants very long term.

Here is an except from an article in TFH written by Terry Barber a chemical engineer and author of many aquatic plant books.

" Few plants commonly used in aquariums are adapted to being submerged full-time. Many are marginal plants that evolved in the banks of bodies of water. Others are from environments that flood periodically; the plant spends only part of it's life underwater. We just need to understand that we often keep our plants in conditions that are somewhat unnaturnal"

My Scapes

Well as I said before it goes back to the difference between a hobbysists and scientists defintion of "true" aquatic.

The guy is correct in what he's saying. Not having seen the full article I don't know in what context he is saying it, but in the qoute you provided he's not saying this is a reason why plants won't survive in an aquarium long term ?

We just need to understand that we often keep our plants in conditions that are somewhat unnaturnal

Well, isn't everything we keep in an aquarium in unnatural circumstances ? We provide additions like filters etc to make up for that and help the life forms threin adapt. Yes maybe most of the plants we keep are only submersed part time in the wild , but they adapt. A plant dying in a tank (assuming it's a true aquatic in the hobbyists sense of the definition) is more to do with conditions in the tank then anything else. Plants should long outlive the fish. There are people who have had the same plants for many many years. I think Keith has some Anubias that are over 10 years old ! I have a lot of plants that are over a year old and just keep getting better looking.

You have to remember that the conditions in the wild the author describes and the growth patterns are a reaction not a necessity for the plant. The plant adapts to the circumtances. The plant is submersed and the water dries up, it adapts and changes it's growth pattern to survive, the area floods again and the plants adapts again. It's not that these cycles are neccessary for the plant to survive rather the plant is simply adapting to a given condition. It will probably be very happy and capable to survive long term under either condition.That's why it will change it's growth pattern and look for each circumstance - long term survival.

but it seems like alot has to be done to keep these plants very long term.

I would disagree. Most people have a problem keeping the plants healthy full stop. Once you have this licked (as you now have)keeping them long term requires nothing other then what you are doing now.It can seem that way because plants can be pretty tough, they can store nutrients for about a month, so they it can take a while for somebody to kill one thru neglect. But this is nothing to do with long term viability this is usually a plant that was dying from day one.


Last edited by bensaf at 29-Apr-2005 22:59

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

If you had your light suspended over your tank and left the tank open many plants would grow out the top just like they do in any natural body of water. Just because many grow this way does not mean there aren't some growing under the surface that haven't made it yet. I think the conditions we keep plants in can be quite natural for the plant and it can be very easy to keep them alive this way. The unnatural part is that we also trim them or just let them run into the canopy which keeps them from their normal growth of only being partially underwater. The reason I have trouble keeping certain plants alive is not because I'm growing them underwater. The exceptions are plants like the brazil sword or that house palm someone gave me saying it was sold as aquatic. It's now growing in a pot in front of the window.

I'd like to introduce you to my java fern. Say hi to java fern! She's a lovely little plant, keeps giving me babies like crazy. In the year or so that I've had her, she's become a mother plant several dozen times over. There is absolutely NOTHING special that I do to the tank or the water. She needs no special care, and really doesn't give a fig what goes on around her, just keeps producing babies in scads. Does that sound like a plant that isn't aquatic?

I have an unidentified plant. (Don't you love chain store employees?) I do nothing to the plant but keep it underwater. It grows slowly, but does well. In fact, it reacts violently to being out of the water for any length of time. The leaf tips quickly turn brown and die. Again, doesn't sound like a non-aquatic plant.

Anubias... I have several plants, all of which respond in the same manner as the previous plant when the leaves get dried out. Underwater, they are a lush green color. Out of water they die and turn brown...

Crypts can be grown out of the water, I believe, but do great underwater as well. Like bensaf said, many plants are accustomed to rainy season/dry season type weather cycles and can adapt to both.

In short, I have to really agree with bensaf's explanation and response. I'm certainly no botanist, but I believe that if a plant can dwell underwater for years (and if we have to inject CO2, etc, so be it... a river can be hard to replicate in a tank!) and do so healthily, how can you classify it as non-aquatic?

And on top of that, my crypts, java fern and anubias have all had offspring... certainly that is a good side? I doubt a non-aquatic plant would make the effort of producing daughter plants if the conditions were poor or unsuitable for the offspring!

Edit: Oh, and I don't use CO2 injection or anything special. Some of the heavy root feeding plants get fertilizer spikes or root tabs, but that's simply to richen the plain gravel substrate.

Last edited by Kitten at 30-Apr-2005 15:22

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

I don't understand what's in the heart of this topic. Plant cruelty? Yes, most plants would like to grow out of the water, but so what? As Bensaf said, aquariums are unnatural no matter how you look at it. Nothing, fish or plant, would jump into a tank and decide to grow there, but we do it anyway.

There are many people who keep open aquariums and let the tank grow out of the water, which is more natural to the plants, this is a possibility indeed if you're after that. You can always fill only half or two thirds of your tank and let the plants grow out of the water if that's what you want.

Sorry it took so long for me to respond. This is really just a discussion to understand better the aquarium environment verus nature.

It's not a problem neccessarily, but to me it does explain why it's takes considerable effort at first to grow many aquatic plants long term. I do agree with the author of the piece.

Look I remember going to Disneyworld and they had an exhibit that showed plants being grown with their roots suspended in the air, no soil. They had typical vegetable plants bearing tremendous fruit. The plants obviously were enjoying the conditions, but there was a large effort to set it up to make it work.

My Scapes

I think some aquarium plants are true aquatic plants who only grow submersed. Some that come to mind are Vals -- I can't imagine them growing out of the water no matter what. Hornwort is another. Don't think it will survive atmospheric air at all. Algae, a popular plant (after all, so many of us grow it...) is another fine example. So I do think that some plants are truly and aquatic plants. Others are not, some of them can adapt better than others to growing submersed, while some are not so easy, and I guess that's why some plants require CO2 addition while others benefit from it but wouldn't die if we didn't supply it.

That's at least what I make of all this...

If you want to see natural submersed plant communities, come to the plant fest in Florida. Then you can compare these differences first hand. We are alos going to stop by and the folks will be able to buuy plants at a local aquatic plant nursery as well as several driftwood vendors.
If you like marine plants, which are very hard to find, there is a Salt water version the following the FW version.

Regards,
Tom Barr


3rd annual Plant Fest July 8-14th 2005!
subscribe@BarrReport.com Get connected
www.BarrReport.com Get the information