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Okay, I came across a person at an LFS that swears that he doesn't add any trace elements to his reef at home. One thing that he also told me is that once one element is added, another element is required. I can agree to some extent through my own experience. I'd like to know if anyone relies solely on water changes and add no trace elements to they're tank. Thanks.

Oh, by the way, this guy claims to have SPS corals as well. Hard to believe he doesn't even add calcium.

I would say that yes you "could" maybe do that but, why? The minerals in a normal salt mix are barely enough to get some decent coraline algea growth. I've seen SPS coral stay at the LFS for months and they don't add anything, but it shows no new growth. Now if you don't want your coral to thrive, grow and spread so it just sits there like a lump then fine don't add any thing, but if you want any growth at all then you need supplements.

Agreed with your comment. I might be talking more on the lines of softies though. My recent trace element addition was the use of iodide. Is this necessary?
If you've read the book "reef secrets" it tells you the composition of natural seawater. I don't use natural seawater. Are synthetic salt mixes good enough to get the job done? I'm not a biologist, but is it enough if my mix only has magnesium and calcium, but doesn't include salt elements like bromine?

The guy at your LFS may do the same thing I do. I use tap water for my water changes. I have an RO/DI unit, but only use it for my FW SA fishes.

The reason I use the tap water, is with the SW salt mix makeup, I already have all the trace elements that everyone else is adding. My only problem is the phosphates, but I use a scrubber to remove them. As for no calcium addatives, this could be done, but coral growth will be slower. I use Aragonite substrate and this helps keep the calcium up, but not as high as I like it.

Additions to my tanks, include only iodine, calcium, and kalkwasser. The iodine is for the crustacea, and some maybe for corals, and is added only at time of water changes. The calcium will stay around 300 in my tank on a normal day to day basis, but I prefer to have it up around 400, and even a little higher. The kalkwasser helps control the alkalinity to maintain higher levels and keep there, due to the risk of the higher calcium levels could cause a drop.

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There is always a bigger fish...

I'm not sure where your from, but here in San Diego the tap waters pretty bad. I'd like to use tap though, I'm too cheap to buy an RO unit so I have to lunk around 10 gallons every week. You mentioned scrubbers, are you talking about poly filters?

Filter pads, these by HBH work very well. There are some other things out there that work better but are far more expensive. The best is a double bottle liguid call Phos-somthing (can't remember the last part of name), that is the best, but a $25 bottle only treats 100 gals. The filter pads are around $6 give or take, and will treat about 75 gals very well;
http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?cm_ven=MSN&cm_ite=ProductFeed&cm_pla=Fish&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030141&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441781363&bmUID=1102059430089

As for your water, what do you mean by bad?

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There is always a bigger fish...

I dont add anything to my tank, my Ca reactor just arrived and that will be all she wrote for additives as far as i want. I have just setup a 1000L storage drum for NSW and will obviously switching from salt mix to that when i get it filled soon. I use an Ro/DI for top off and currently SW make up but would never use our tap water in my baby either(), but thats just personal choice.

EDIT, I was using a 2 part additive to maintain Ca/Alk but it annoyed me big time and i canned the idea so now im hanging to hook up the reactor.

-DL

Last edited by Dark Lotus at 03-Dec-2004 06:50

Cake > Pie

I was recently told that I should add "trace elements" to my Freshwater tanks. I dont think, being on well water that is super hard would be lacking in "trace elements", but the guy is so sure I need it. How come? Is it even useful in fw tanks?

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S.D. tap water contains some traces of copper and other heavy metals, and its very hard. I'm not sure if treating tap water would be the best option for me. I'm thinking that there has to be a synthetic mix that has the necessary elements in it. Someone told me about this minot sure the name) that contains a bottle for every 10 gallons which contains trace elements.

Most all the salt mixes have the trace elements added. Just some have more for the likes of a reef tank, than for the likes of a fish only tank. But, as many reef keepers, and myself included, we try to keep our tanks in an ecotype system. In other words, we don't do water changes until nessecary. My 75 gal tank, and my 40 gal frag tank, both only get water changes from once every 2-6 months. I watch the levels and if they go off line, then the water changes happen. The smaller ones get them every 2-4 weeks though, as if something goes wrong in these tanks, the tank is too small to compensate, and thus could cause drastic problems quickly.

As for the FW addatives, if you are using well water, you need none. The person at your LFS is just telling you what he was told, and he is wrong. Now, if you are using RO/DI for your FW tanks, you most definitely need to be adding the trace elements back to the water, or you will most likely have a fish loss very soon.

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There is always a bigger fish...

After reading some of the comments here I suppose I wrote to quickly. For the longest time I avoided keeping marine but I read articles and kept up with new research. I also saw the list of additives from different manufacturers grow in that time. The manager of my LFS keeps a 180 reef tank that is one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen and for about a year he has not used a protein skimmer, only does a water change every other month and only started using additives shortly after he change or to OR water. If I did that in my 58 gallon reef it would crash faster than I could turn the skimmer back on. I believe a lot of people are afraid of additives because so many people tend to overdose, especially on iodine. I believe in additives and will continue to add them because it has seemed to work for me, if can get away without dosing then you're luckier than I am.


Last edited by stuff_gnome at 03-Dec-2004 19:28

After reading one of my books called "Reef Secrets" I came across something that really got to me. One thing was when it stated that a 10% water change in a YEAR should be done. I don't know what the author was trying to point out by saying that, but I find that very hard to believe. I know an established reef system is almost self sustaineable, but I'm thinking of how many nutrients would be built up over time.
The other thing that I have major concerns about are feeding and topping off the water supply.

FEEDING: Is a reef tank that has been established for a few months provide food for fish that need a meaty diet? How much do you feed your fish/corals and how often.

TOPPING OFF WATER: Using 1 gallon of DI water, I drip an alkalinity powder with magnesium mix every other day. Is this sufficient to raise PH to 7.8? Or is something else better.

After reading one of my books called "Reef Secrets" I came across something that really got to me. One thing was when it stated that a 10% water change in a YEAR should be done. I don't know what the author was trying to point out by saying that, but I find that very hard to believe. I know an established reef system is almost self sustaineable, but I'm thinking of how many nutrients would be built up over time.

There are too many reef keepers and too many tank setups for there to be a clear cut water change routine, that guy likes 10% a year, others may do 52 changes a year... or more. As for me personally, i am not a fan of the "see how long it goes for" or "everything tests fine, so why change?" thinking but thats just my opinion.

FEEDING: Is a reef tank that has been established for a few months provide food for fish that need a meaty diet? How much do you feed your fish/corals and how often.

Speaking generally, no. I feed my fish Nori, 2 types of flake, beefheart, brine/mysis shrimp, scallops, mussels, fish, pipi's, "general marine" frozen mixes and a more herbivore based frozen mix. I cant think of the others right now but theres more -someone else will no doubt mention them.

Fish get half of one frozen block and half of a different type nightly. In the afternoon they will get some flake or pellets etc etc. My 6 line wrasse and clowns will also steal Nori during the day from the tangs feeder so i know they are not hungry during the day when im at work I try to give fresh squid/mussel/fish/scallop at least twice a week.

As for corals, most of them will snatch something in the current but 2-3 times a week i target feed the brain/elegance etc etc and for this i use whatever fresh foods i can find. My anemone is fed every 2 days (same as above and just about all of the above)

TOPPING OFF WATER: Using 1 gallon of DI water, I drip an alkalinity powder with magnesium mix every other day. Is this sufficient to raise PH to 7.8? Or is something else better.

That is an ok method, nothing wrong with it but to know if it works, you need to test.... there are other methods but none are necessarily "better"

-DL

Last edited by Dark Lotus at 05-Dec-2004 02:12

Cake > Pie