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Mike,
Where do you get your paramecium? I put in some green water (infusoria) this time around. I have some neons that are now 24 days old and a few have their stripes now. I'm going to attempt to breed some neons and cardinals in the same tank and everything just to see if that will up my success. That's in the 'coming soon' of experiments

thanks
i was out of town for the weekend looking for some black piranhas unsuccessfully so it took me awhile to write back
i did find a trio of reds for sale that were said to b proven breeders but 2 of them were pretty ruf looking the third was really nice

good luck with ur cardinals if u dont succeed at first dont give up
sometimes its the journey that makes for a better story then the destination
best of rolls

Thanks for that detailed account Brybenn. Good luck with your pirahnas.

i take care of the fry the same as mike does
i use plants in the breeding tank
i lower the water slowly for a few days n then replace it by spraying in aged tank water that had alot of plants in it ive also used water from my neighbours pond as it is almost black i put it in spray bottles n spray until i cant spray no more
i keep the lights off during the refilling of the tank with acidic soft aged water
i use java ferns n java moss n parrots feather n another plant i dont no the name of brite green grows like a weed n has stages of somewhat broad leaves
i turn off the filter n switch to a air driven sponge filter day after day i slowly siphon some water out n replacen abouit half what i take out with aged water
until my 5gallon tank is about 5/8 full i completely darken it wait 3 days n take the adults out cover the tank back up my trick to keep the water temp consistant is i use smaller tanks placed in larger tanks n i heat that water which means no warm spot by the heater no cold spot on the other side
i place the adults back into the main tank as to enjoy them i dont really feed them for the first 2 weeks they feed off the plants n enuf stuff that was in the water from my neighbours pond for that time
i slowly bring light to the tank never making it britely lit
thy fry r now visible n free swiming so i spray in aged water for hours n hours till the tank is filled back up n then i wait another week n transfer them back to a 10 gallon n move al the plants n such back to it n start up the filter i use the same water siphoned into the 10 n spray bomb the other 3-4 gallons after a month or so they have there colours starten n r easy to see i take a count n then while there in there i slowly add sand or gravel to the tank n make it look nice raise the fry n sell them n start over

mike as for starten in a lower ph n working up ive done that for neons not cards
neons breed between 5 n 6.5 i had them in 4 n worked up
this was unintentional as i was breeding them n they stopped for a week so i checked n it was 4 so i increased the ph n at 5 they started breeding again
i got to the point it was to much work n i wasnt enjoying the fish althought it was great to breed them i like to watch them so i jsut left them in the main tank n id drop the ph n theyd breed i left the eggs n fry rite in the main tank the survivors lived n the others were nutritional meals
it was then that i moved n sold off most of my tetras all of my breeding stock n got into cichlids n continued my passion for piranhas
with my new g/f im gettin back into tetras cuz " there so cute" if anyone has any questions bout my breeding of various tetras jsut let me no on here or msn
ps has anyone on here ever bred piranhas? it is my next goal as im raisin 7 now to attepmt it

Wish I could say I had. Trouble is, if I were to attempt this, I'd need to get the third aquarium up and running as a blackwater aquarium, which at the moment is a project that is a non-starter until the house receives much needed structural repairs (sigh).

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I didn't know the British use the word 'reckon' j/k Anywho, I'll have to get some spirulina or the tetra pro veggie food. Any idea as to which works better? Do you breed cardinals Calil? If so, what is your success rate and maybe a description of how you breed them, as detailed as possible? I'd love to learn as much as I can on breeding them from those who've done it. Thanks!

I'm currently road-testing TetraPro's new Vegetable food in a thread in General Freshwater. Although it's early days, I reckon this could be a winner. If the avid scramble for food on the part of my Characin collection - Cardinals, Lemons & Beckford's Pencils - is anything to go by, they love it. Has added spirulina which should fill the nutrition gap nicely.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

"This suggests that as well as feeding live foods to aquarium specimens, a herbivorous supplement might improve spawning success and yields."

What would be a good herbivorous supplement? Romaine lettuce, cucumber? Anyone know?

Herbert Axelrod studied Cardinals in the wild. His findings included:

[1] pH of the spawning grounds of the Rio Negro could be as low as 4.0

[2] Water was extremely soft. Mineral content was barely measureable.

[3] Spawning grounds are littered on the bottom with decayed leaves from the canopy trees that enclose them and shut off the light. One of the reasons why over the millennia, Cardinal eggs have become photosensitive like those of the Neon Tetra: they breed in similar shaded creeks with ligkt cut off by overhead canopy trees.

[4] Examination of the stomach contents showed that Cardinals in the breeding grounds ate the fallen leaf litter to sustain them. This suggests that as well as feeding live foods to aquarium specimens, a herbivorous supplement might improve spawning success and yields. One of the oddities of the Cardinal Tetra's life cycle is that it spawns in waters that are practically devoid of aquatic insect content, even mosquito larvae are absent.

Ordinarily, I'd suggest that you get in touch with TFH magazine for more information, citing Axelrod's numerous South American expeditions, but given recent events, I don't think the magazine staff would be too pleased to be reminded about dear old Herb!




Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I'm thinking just add the hornwart for the 3 days or so that you have them breeding. After that take them out with the parents. Good luck!

I let light in after the first 5 days are up and I start feeding. Up unti then I keep it dark.

I do this gradually I keep a light cloth over the tank which lets light through for another week.

As for sucking up the fry....well I have sucked up a few in my time I am sure but After 2 weeks you can just make them out if you are careful( I hope!)

I have a magnifying lens ,which poor sighted people use to read books, which I use to scan the tank bottom and since it is bare I hope I don't get too many!

I don't use the filter for the first two weeks because I only use 4 inches of water and don't start "topping it up" with regular water until they are free swimming and I increase the depth a little.

I lay the suction tube on its side initially until the depth is about 6-8 inches and cut back the air just to get a lift but not too vigorous water movement.

I will try the hornwort idea but I don't like adding plants to the tank unless I have to. It makes it even harder to see the fry. Worth a go though to see if it improves the spawn frequency.

The idea about usig water in which fish have already spawned is sound. I have read reports that this works with Cardinals but I have not seen anything positive myself yet.

Let me know how you go.

Thanks Mike, very informative! I'm wondering why no filter the first 2 weeks? When I breed my neons I just keep my sponge filter running in my 10 gallon. I'm thinking maybe if you use hornwart when breeding a third time instead of spawning mops that might help them? I'm going to try having neons and cardinals breed at the same time. Maybe having another pair breed will induce a spawn from those that have been bred twice already. I know it works with cory's and other species. I like your flood idea to simulate the rainy season in the Rio Negro when wild cardinals breed. Anywho, I got 10 cardinals today so I'll acclimate and condition them and then go for breeding them. 2 more questions for you. When do you allow light to come into the tank and how do you syphon off the bottom of the tank without sucking up any fry? Thanks again!

Ok.

I use fairly young fish , 1 yr ( They will breed at 16 weeks) Condition well with as much live food as possible for 2-3 weeks.

I use a 24x10x10 inch tank by choice but I have bred them in 18x10x8 as well.

I use either spawning mops or a spawning grate ( which I made myself from old bits of glass and 3 mm nylon mesh.

The spaning mops are made from nylon wool ( white) I use two.

The spwning grate fits inside the 2 foot tank about 1 inch from the bottom which allows you to see the eggs and/or fry.

I only use abot 4 inches of water in these breeding tanks temperature 25-26 degree Celsius.

I have had success with good spring water RO water and rain water. I use rain water mainly because I can collect it easily when it rains( That is a problem for a few months where I live!)

You can not use anything but very soft water. The eggs or fry will die.2DH MAX and preferably <1DH

I filter the water through a small box filter filled with German peat moss. This lowers the pH TO 5.5 and turns the water a weak tea colour.

I introduce a pair/threesome one male two females and cover the tank completely and leave them for 3 days if I use the grate . I still check daily. The eggs are very hard to see and I usually pick up the fry moving before I see the eggs unless there are a few white ones.

The parents will eat them if they get a chance so I prefer the grate.

Otherwise the tanks are completely bare.

This help in picking up the fry and making sure the food is being taken.

Once you see eggs or fry remove the parents and wait 5 days

No filtration at this stage.

Feed after 5 days or fry visible as losing the yolk sack. They are still minute and unable to take anything other than freshly hatched brine shrimp.Most brine shrimp are too large.

However, I feed paramecium for the first food (days 5-7 )then Filtered vinegar eels and brine shrimp Naupli and after 14 days I add micro worms.

after 14 days I add a sponge filter to the tank and change one lite of water twice a day . I suck the bottom of the tank with an air hose tube to remove uneaten food while doing this.The water I use is just aged tap water to start acclimatising the fish and providing some salts.

The fry love to sit under the filter and you can begin to count them about 14 days. Whatever you count you can usually double or triple. They are very hatd to see.

Keep this up until 6 weeks and then colour starts to appear and the Cardinals start to shoal.

Continue to keep the separate and in the same tank for another 4 weeks . They will be about 1 inch long by this time and can be moved to a planted tank. Don't rush it. Cardinals get spooked easily when young and can often look as though they die of fright floating upside down. However, they generally recover if you darken the tank and give them time.

Cardinals ( in my opinion) do better and look better at lower pH. They will live at pH above 7 but the colours are not as good and I doubt they will breed successfuly.

I also think it is important not to keep them at high hardness levels especially if you are trying to breed from them.

I think that covers it. I have bred them 35 times with varying levels of success so I have some experience but my main problem is getting them to spawn after the first couple of spawnings. They seem to be disinclined even if I use a proven pair. Any ideas anyone.

As I said earlier I am going to experiment with keeping the breeders at lower pH and bringing bthem UP to 5.5 instead of going the other way from 7 to 5.5. If anyone has tried this please let me know.


I have so photos but I can't post them at present.

Good luck

Mike and Bryben,
I was wondering if you guys could give an account of your experience breeding cardinals. As detailed as possible would be great. I don't want to attempt it to realize I missed something real trivial that could have made all the difference. Knowledge is power, especially when breeding Thanks!

I get my starter culture from a biological supply store in Melbourne. They send it via the post. Southern Biological...they are on the web and you can order on-line.

I believe most biological stores that supply schools would have some cultures. I am sure you could get it in the US.

I keep the cultures in rotating 1 gallon plastic bottles which I rotate evry 3/4 weeks much like other live food.

I use a salt spoon og Brewers yeast as a food for the 3/ 4 weeks and onnce they start to decline I start a new jar.

You can add the decanted paramecium straight to the fry tank.

I have eight neons in my 29 gallon tank. I am just wondering if it would be worth breeding neons. they already get diseases and i dont want to lose my fish or my money. I don't want a batch of diseased fry to kill my other fish. Any info would be nice.

Cardinals will spawn at higher pH but all the literature will tell you is that unless the Hardness is below 2 DH ( preferably a lot below) then the eggs are damaged and any fry that do hatch are generally weak or deformed.

Try using rain water or RO water and you will have better luck.

Wow, if you people are getting 200+ fry per spawn, you could be the second and third (respectively) individuals to be able to produce enough fry to sell. Out of a school of six, I've only been able to get them to spawn twice, with a total yield of 8 fry. Since then, they've gone frigid. I guess I'm quite lucky to even have my fish spawning at nearly 7.6 pH water straight from the tap.

Yup, cardinal tetras can certainly be kept in a pH of 7.0, and will actually survive at an even higher pH. My school of cardinal tetras is thriving at 7.8, and neither they nor my lemon tetras mind at all. I know I've said this before, but keeping the tank conditions stable is much more important than keeping them at the "right" level. If you keep up on your tank maintenance, you should be able to keep just about any fish you want.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Let me know how your experiment goes with that. I'm going to get some cardinals and try breeding them. Now that I know I can keep them in 7.0 and they'll be ok I have a tank to house them in . I'll keep you updated.