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Hello.

I am new to this board and I must say that it is very impressive and seems very helpful and friendly.

I was wondering if anyone here could help me determine if I have a problem or not. Here is the background first.

I have a 20g (75L) aquarium with the Eclipse System 2 BioWheel filter. The tank is heated to about 77 degrees F. I have only fake plants. The water chemicals are zero for the three N componds. The hardness and pH is a little high(7.8) but I am VERY SLOWLY fixing that.

In this tank right now I have 1 Neon Tetra (Not intentionally). Aside from him being a very nervous little fish all by himself he seems otherwise healthy. He sleeps alright at night and is eating fine. He spends a lot of time hiding but I figure that is normal when he doesn't have a schooling group.

I am about to purchase some more tetras to help make him feel better but this is where I am concerned. He appears to be loosing color at the base of is tail. I have some low quality pictures below(my camera isn't that great).

If you look closely you can see the white patch at the tail. My question is does this look like stress from being alone and will go away when I add additional tetras, or does this look like NTD?

I don't want to add more tetras just to have this guy get them sick.
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http://www.bean-family.com/rick/images/tetra.jpg
http://www.bean-family.com/rick/images/tetra2.jpg

Last edited by slickrb at 19-Jan-2006 07:37

Last edited by slickrb at 19-Jan-2006 07:38

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

From those photos it's difficult to say.

However, NTD usually manifests itself, when symptoms appear, as white tissue disintegration. White subcutaneous (i.e., just beneath the skin) patches appear and spread, obliterating all other detail, and the fish starts to lose balance as various internal organs are affected too. If the blue irirdescent stripe disappears, then you're looking at a seriously sick fish. At the moment, however, you have what appears to be yellowing at the caudal peduncle, which could be corrected by nothing more drastic than some colour enhancement food to replace the lost pigment. Keep observing that fish closely. Note that in many cases, the principal sign is discolouration occurring below the dorsal fin first, then spreading to other areas of the body.

Some web links:

Neon Tetra Disease FAQ

NTD - and something called "False NTD"

Page showing affected fishes

You'll also be advised to look at this article of mine for FP ... it covers microsporidian disease in general, but contains much useful info on NTD.


Last edited by Calilasseia at 19-Jan-2006 13:14

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thanks for the help. I had seen some of that information, but I guess what is confusing me is where the color is fading from. I had seen some websites saying the color loss starts under the dorsal fin, while others just say the red stripe.

For now, unless I see any further color loss or any of the other symptoms I am going to assume it is not NTD. Do you have any suggestions for food to help in enhance the color?

I currently feed it flake only. This weekend I am buying a few more Neons (they will be quarantined for two weeks). I will also be purchasing some frozen blood worms to start feeding once a week. Do you think this is adequate feeding?




Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Well, given the success I've had with getting my Panda Corys to spawn, I'm obviously going to say that live food works wonders if you can get it! Which it does - believe me - it's not only a first class conditioner for breeding, but also helps when your fishes are assailed by White Spot and other nasties - I've discovered that if you feed lots of live food while treating fish for diseases such as fin rot, the convalescence time can be halved. It's a major league immune system booster too!

If you can't get live food, then the maxim to adopt here is "variety is the spice of life". If you feed flakes, feed several different kinds, and if you toss in frozen bloodworm as well, that will also make a difference. Take my own feeding régime as an example - my fishes (the Pandas and the Cardinals in the main aquarium) are fed as follows:

Flakes: TetraMin, TetraRuby ColourPride, Tetra Pro, Tetra Pro Colour, Tetra Pro Vegetable (chosen at random each feeding)
Freeze dried Tubifex (as a treat)
Hikari Wafers (when I can get them - my Pandas go muts over these as do my Otocinclus!)
Live food - 3 feedings per week of a smorgasbord of live Daphnia, live Brine Shrimp and live Bloodworm.

Give your fishes the same diet, and they should end up like little jewels!

Oh yes, almost forgot - the flake feedings - I feed mine small amounts often. 5 times a day or more. This more closely approximates the wild situation, where the fishes have to forage on a continual basis for food - if they get small feedings often, not only is there less chance of overfeeding, but also less chance of them gorging themselves on big banquets and excreting partially digested food out the other end (an especially acute problem with large Barbs and Cichlids). If your fishes excrete partially digested food because they've gorged, then that will add additional loading to your biofilter - again, the old Innes book comes up trumps despite being over 50 years old!



Last edited by Calilasseia at 19-Jan-2006 14:56

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thanks Calilasseia. That is very helpful. I have been feeding it the TetraMin only. When I am picking up the extra tetras, I'll pick up some different flake in addition to the Frozen Bloodworms (I may try live when I get a bit more accustomed to the hobby).

Now since I am buying some more tetras this weekend, I was wondering if you all could comment on the best way to introduce them. My goal is to get my current tetra into a school with as little stress as possible. I figure I have 3 options.

Plan 1 - Buy 3 Tetras and place them in my 2.5 QTank for 2+ weeks. I'd leave the other tetra alone. I would place the safe tetras in the main tank and repeat with 4 more to get a final total of 8.

Plan 2 - Buy 3 Tetras and place them in my 2.5 QTank. I'd also move the lonely tetra in with them so it can school. Then move all back to the big tank once the fish are clean.

Plan 3 - Buy 3 Tetras and put them in the main tank right off. Then once these are stable buy 4 more and put in the Qtank before adding.

I though plan 1 would be best, but the lone tetra is getting more and more skittish. I don't like plan 3 because if the fish from the store are carrying anything then I would just put it in my main tank.

Sorry for all the questions. I've lost a bunch of fish lately and I want to make sure I start doing this stuff right.

Thanks


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

If your quarantine tank is big enough to house them, I'd go with a variation on Plan 2.

Obtain the number of Neons that you intend to have that will make up your full sized shoal. Let's assume you're going for a shoal of 8, for example, so you buy 7 Neons. Put them in the quarantine tank, and add your loner to give him some playmates. To make life easier for them, I'd also try and get hold of a couple of sprigs of Hornwort if you can, as this plant is an ammonia and nitrate hoover that will aid your water chemistry management no end! It will also give the Neons some sense of security, giving them a place to hide. Don't try weighting this plant down, it's a waste of time, it grows as a suspended floating plant.

If you have access to a small bit of bogwood with a nice coating of Java Moss growing on it, pop that in the QT too.

I did something similar with my Cardinals (although my plan was actually Plan 1 - quarantine the new Cardinals then introduce them to my existing survivor - because my lone Cardinal seemed to be holding up while I waited to provide him with playmates). I put 11 Cardinals in my QT, along with Hornwort and Java Moss. Because mine were so small, I fed them small amounts of flake (powdered by hand to ensure they could eat it with ease) up to 10 times per day. At the end of about 3 weeks, they went in the main aquarium to provide playmates for my existing Cardinal (the last survivor of a shoal of 8 that had been wiped out thanks to my water company's screw-up) and from then on my Cardinals have been almost insanely happy. Right now they're zooming up and down the aquarium snapping at live Daphnia and Brine Shrimp!

Oh, if you have a Brine Shrimp hatchery running, give your quarantined Neons feeds of baby Brine Shrimp and that should help them come through the quarantine period wonderfully. If your Neons are large enough to eat Daphnia, feed live Daphnia too.

Remember, not only should you go with variety as regards your flake choices, but you should also, where possible and practical, feed small amounts often. This more closely approximates to the wild state, where the fishes are more or less constantly foraging for food, and eat whatever comes their way as and when they chance upon it. If you feed small amounts often, instead of one or two big meals, you'll not only be approximating the wild condition more accurately, but it'll be better for the fishes' digestion. They'll excrete fully digested food instead of partially digested food, which can be a problem with any fishes that are allowed to gorge (though some species are worse than others - large Barbs are notorious for excreting large amounts of partially digested food if they're allowed to gorge). If your fishes gorge and excrete partially digested food, this creates an additional load on your biofilter which you don't need! So, small amounts often is the rule of thumb (another one of those commonsense tips from the venerable Innes book!).

Also, the management rule of thumb here is small water changes daily. If your quarantine aquarium contains, say, 20 litres, change 1 litre per day. This, along with the Hornwort present in there, will be sufficient to keep ammonia in check.

Remember, I brought 11 Cardinals through quarantine in tip top condition in just 13 litres of water - but then they were tiny when I got them, and they more than doubled their size in that time thanks to my 'power feeding' régime of 10 feeds per day, which at that tiny size they appreciated!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002