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I have had my tank set up for about 2 or 3 weeks. I put some tetras, rasboras, cory cats, and a snail in it. just recently I have been loosing 1 neon tetra each day for the past 4 days. now I am down to 8 neons. And my snail crawled into his shell 2 days ago and has not moved since. Before the neons and my snail were very active and looked very content. None of the other fish's moods have changed at all that I have noticed. Why the loss of neons and why did my snail turn into a hermit? Any sugestions?

Hi and welcome to fishprofiles.com

Do you know about the Nitrogen Cycle and how it can cause New Tank Syndrome? This can kill fish and it sounds like you are going through it right now.

When you put fish into a tank, they produce a toxin called ammonia (fish pee, poo, rotting food, etc.). This ammonia rises to levels that can hurt the fish. Then, a good bacteria begins to grow that eats the ammonia.

But, this bacteria makes a toxin called nitrIte. Nitrite can kill fish too. A second bacteria begins to grow in the tank that eats the nitrite and it's level's come down. It produces a third chemical called, NitrAte. NitrAte is not toxic unless there is a lot of it and it rises very slowly. We control it with water changes to keep it below 40 ppm.

Once your tank has both bacterial colonies running strongly, your ammonia and nitrite should always read zero.

I have just described the nitrogen cycle. It's these chemicals that can cause fish sickness and death, especially in newer tanks. Even moreso, if they are stocked too quickly or overstocked.

First thing we need to do is to get numbers for the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. It would help to know the pH and temperature too. Can you get these for us? If you don't have test kits, you can take a bag of water to the fish store and ask them to test it.

However, you must bring the numbers back. We need to see where you are in the nitrogen cycle and seeing how many ppm (parts per million) you have of all of these we can tell. So, take a pen and paper and tell the fish store you need numbers.

What can help is to reduce your fish stock for now, then restock later. If your fish have no fuzz, redness, spots, then call your fish store and tell them you stocked up too quickly and the tank is going through New Tank Syndrome. Ask them if you can return some of your fish.

The cories should the first to go. They have no scales and are sensitive to the toxins. In fact, all of your fish are sensitive and not what we call "cycle hardy". But, if you reduce it down to just a few fish, like three neons, you may get by. But, you would need to buy some Stress Zyme or New and Improved Cycle to dose the tank. This is live bacteria that will help speed up your cycle.

What size tank is this?

Can you get up to the fish store today? Or, tomorrow as early as possible to get those numbers?

For now, it would be good to do a partial water change of about 20%. I don't know how old you are, but if you don't know how to figure it, 20% of a 10 gallon is 2 gallons. 20% of a 20 gallon is 4 gallons. Make sure the replacement water is the same temp, otherwise you can make them very sick with ich - a white spot parasite.

Hope this helps

Diane

I have a 20 gallon tall tank. I have checked the amonia and it was real close to 0. The ph is about 7.2. im not sure of the nitrite or nitrate, i still need to buy those test kits. also my test kits are old... not sure if that makes a difference. The whole set up is an old one my grandmother gave me... bout 5 years old. By the way my test kits are the liquid ones not the strips.

Oh by the way 20 in 2 months (so happy to not be a teenager )

- We get so many kids in here that I never know. It's not easy to ask either because the kids are told not to tell anyone how old they are, which is understandable. I would have provided this if I had known:

http://www.fishprofiles.net/faq/begin-cycling.asp

If you can afford new test kits, I would get them. I replace mine yearly. If they are liquid do you know if they are aquarium pharmaceuticals? Those are the best (they look like this).

http://www.aquatichouse.com/Test%20Kits_files/Liquid.asp

Scroll down for the ammonia box. You can see the bottle on the pic.

20 talls don't allow you to stock as heavily as a 20 long. Basically, stocking level is based on surface area. For the type of fish you have, the best guideline is to multiply the length x width, then divide that number by 12. This would be the total number of inches in fish you can have (adult length) without causing problems over time. For initiating the tank, we start with 1/4 to 1/3 of that number. So 3-4 fish that are about 1 to 1.5 inches is all you would have in there. IF you dose the tank with something like Cycle, Stress Zyme or BioSpira (difficult to find now as stock is low), you can start with fish that aren't cycle hardy like rasboras or tetras.

I would take a bag of water to the fish store and have them check the values I suggested above since your kits are old. Go from there. I still suspect new tank syndrome.

When you got the tank, did you start over, or did you keep some of the gravel and filter media. If you kept this stuff how was it transferred (including a timeline). Basically, harmful bacteria can develop if water is allowed to sit unfiltered (even a little) and can make fish sick or drive up toxins like nitrite. Ditto for filters.

In any event, Cycle or Stress Zyme would be helpful right now, but consider returning some of the fish to cut down on your stock. By all means, check your parameters and talk to the fish store people as to whether they will accept them back.

well it seems that i wont need to take them back... i just lost 2 more tetras. Seems that when ever I turn the light off another takes the dive. But the neons seem to be the only ones effected (and my snail seems to have become a hermit). By the way i just took out the power head since it really wasn't filtering as much and the TetraTec PF150 and was moving too much water. Maybe when i get the BIO-Wheel hook up ill put it back in... but for the time being the PF150 is good i would think. I just hope that by removing the original power head that i did not start the cycle over.

When I started out with fish, I bought a mystery snail. He was fine for a day or two, then wouldn't come out of his shell. I wasn't sure what to do, so I thought I'd just leave him for a bit and see what happened. The next day he hadn't moved, so I thought he was dead and was going to throw him out. I thought I'd wait until after school, just in case. I came back and he was happily crawling around the tank. He had a lot of close calls like that, where I was so close to throwing him out because I thought he was dead.

I think the best way to tell whether a snail is dead or just hiding is to take it out and smell it. Trust me, you'll know if it's dead

Primary bacterial colonies live on media, like a bio-wheel, bio-bag, bio-balls,sponges or other substance with high surface area for them to colonize. If it was just a powerhead, I wouldn't think it would affect much. BActeria lives on everything (gravel, decco, plants, fake plants, etc), but it is those things with lots of surface area that house the main colony.

How's the ammonia and nitrite. That is what will tell us something.

Do these fish have any symptoms at all? Redness, fuzz, emaciation, bent spines, lumps, etc?

k i went and got a brand new test kit today and ran all the tests on my tank's water.

Ammonia is about 0ppm
Nitrite is about 5ppm
Nitrate is about 5ppm as well
and my pH is about 7.4 - 7.6

todays date is the 17 so that means i have had fish in it for 12 days.
so the cycle should be about 2 weeks into it right?

any words of wisdom at this time?

the fish are fine one day... maybe swimming a little funny (side ways, nose up or down) but no external problems.

Here's your "words of wisdom"...

Many hobbyists have been having problems with Neon Tetras and so have the fish stores.

There's been a constant supply of bad Neons for more than a year and no one really knows why. You can walk into some stores and see many of the Neons dead in their tanks.

My advice would be, as it has been for a long time, to stop buying Neons and try the Cardinals instead. I can't guarantee the Cardinals will be indestructible but they may outlast the Neons.

Remember to acclimate the fish for at least an hour or two before placing in the host tank or expect a mass dieoff within 24 hours.

--garyroland.

i agree with Garyroland, i have seen many dead neons in stores. but i have 11 neons, and i've never lost one *yet*

HighJinx-Have you got a hospital Tank set up?
and how many fish are in your tank?



www.zopilotemachine.com

Much depends on the supplier and the shipping conditions...

When I was testing a dozen Neons for health, about half died while the other half survived.

All the symptoms were identical. One by one within a week or two they isolated themselves from the school, stopped eating and wasted away.

NTD was not a factor.

--garyroland.

i made the mistake of buying neons ,they are so frail,it really would take a miracle or a real good experienced fish keeper to raise!.No matter what i done they died one at a time id get up and 3 would be stuck to intake.And i have been keeping fish for 4 years.so im not a newbie.But just couldt raise ttem.Pet shop <after i told them id bring them back,gave me credit towards more fish].goodluck

sorry my comp blew up for the past week but here is what i have so far...

ammonia is still about 0
nitrite is about 2 or 3 ppm
and nitrate is about 5 ppm

poor Goober died (my snal that turned into a hermit about a week ago) sad thing was it took a week for me to really declare him dead. Never smelled bad or anything.. except i noticed a small hole in his shell the other day. So anyway i managed to kill a snail (go figure) and i still have 5 neons, and the cories and the rasboras are being troopers... no signs of anything wrong with them. Once the tank balances out im thinking of going and getting 1 more snail, 3 more neons, and 3 more rasboras. The only down side is that that brings the total to 8 neons, 6 brilliant rasboras, 3 cory cats, and a snail. Of course i will add them slowly so that the tanks adjusts, but do u all still think that that will b far too many fish in a 20 gallon??? the tank seems so empty now with only the 11 fish in it.

Anyway ill b taking a picture of my tank soon so that you all can have a visual of what im working with.

Consider using a quarantine tank. Fill it with some water from your current tank and add new water to it. Fill it the rest of the way with conditioned water and let it run empty for a day or two and get to the right temp. A 10 gallon is perfect for temporary staging area, a bio-wheel mini or comparable (not whisper mini - that's for 2-5 gal). You can actually run this filter on your main tank to seed a week or two before you buy a small number of fish. Then you add the fish the way you normally would (float the bag 30 minutes or so) and keep them in there for a couple of weeks. This way, you don't kill your tank if you get bad stock.