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I used clove oil, after an hour, I frozen the body just in case.

In my search for clove oil, I found that according to the pharmacy's books, it's primary purpose in humans is to anaesthetise the mouth when you have a tooth ache. So it's seem anaesthetising is it's purpose for more than one animal, lol.

-Dennis

I had to euthenase a fish when moving my tank recently. Forgot all about clove oil though. every time I have to euthenase I berate myself for not being gutsy enough to do the brick trick. I just can't. It was all over in about 30 secs anyway.(thank goodness, always an upseting thing to have to do)

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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

I just tried oil of cloves for the first time , and it was very effective. I have an old angel with terminal swim bladder issues and a neon tetra with dropsy who was fading.

I put the oil ( about 25 drops) into 3 litres of old tank water and whisked the hell out of it.

I put the angel and the tetra in at the same time, the tetra monged out in about 20 seconds and the angel followed in about 4 minutes. The euthanisation went smoothly without so much as a twitch from either fish.

Good advice people.

smells horrible though, its gonna be on my hands all week ..

Last edited by longhairedgit at 28-Oct-2005 23:43

I use about 1 mL clove oil to 1 L water.

Recipe ?

The Amazon Nut...

I always read it was vodka and clove oil together that was the magic mixture, to be followed by a freezing session to be certain.

Vodka (or any form of alcohol) is highly irritating to fishes' gills and other sensitive tissues. Having used alcohol to euthanize fish, I no longer consider it a humane practice. The problem with clove oil and just water is that it's an oil. Obviously oil and water don't mix. Instead of using some kind of chemical irritant to get the oil to mix in with the water, there's a really easy solution. Just fill a container with a lid up with enough tank water, add your clove oil and shake it like crazy until it gets mixed together. Pour the mixture into your euthanizing container, drop the fish in, wait about 30 mins. and either freeze or decapitate.

Totally humane and completely effective.

Smashing a fish with a hammer?...
How is that humane, i know it kills them instantly but i use clove oil which is a lot better than smashing or decapitating the poor thing.i want their death to be painless and not in such a gory manor of doing things.

Decapitation or "smashing" kills the fish instantly. The spinal cord is severed or destroyed right away and the fish won't feel any pain. The reason people use things like clove oil is just because it makes them feel better about the whole process. Your fish is really not going to notice anything.

Last edited by trystianity at 26-Oct-2005 18:59

Glad to help, I am out of cloves myself

The Amazon Nut...

Okay....I see, booze and cloves......I'll just invite my next sick fish to participate in my Friday night ritual with me!

Thanks Fishman, that clears it up.

Last edited by crazyred at 26-Oct-2005 10:45

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

No need to play 'squish the fish'.

Simply BEHEAD it..

This is the fastest most humane way possible.
Alot less messy and gory then your method I would think.

Edit:

Crazyred.. it is not using either clove oil or some form of alcohol.. It's using clove oil and vodka together. The fish falls asleep and does not wake up.

Last edited by DaFishMan at 26-Oct-2005 10:30

The Amazon Nut...

"how did you come about this fish smashing, and wheir do you put whats left of his corpse."

You're supposed to do it in a closed plastic bag, and then you just throw the whole thing away.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

You forgot to mention dropping small fish headfirst into a pot of rapidly boiling water (a la lobster ). This has worked for me in the past, but I would emphasise the SMALL part....

I always read it was vodka and clove oil {i]together that was the magic mixture, to be followed by a freezing session to be certain.

I have used a few different methods in times past, but now I just let fish die on their own time- usually with me busily trying to save their little behinds in the process....

L.

Smashing a fish with a hammer?...
How is that humane, i know it kills them instantly but i use clove oil which is a lot better than smashing or decapitating the poor thing.i want their death to be painless and not in such a gory manor of doing things.

how did you come about this fish smashing, and wheir do you put whats left of his corpse.

Last edited by Crazy_Coyote at 25-Oct-2005 01:54

I use clove oil to put the fish to sleep and then sever the spinal column near the base of the head to be sure. The main reason is because I can't stomach a fish flopping around on the chopping block while I'm trying to euthanize it, and the clove oil puts the fish out very peacefully and gently. Clove oil was used for years as an anaesthetic in fish before other chemicals replaced it. If you underdose the clove oil, the fish may regain consciousness when placed in fresh water (a toilet for example), so it's a good idea to follow up with some other method. Freezing is popular for the squeamish, I think a quick blow to the head or decapitation is best.

Ok, while trawling the forums, it came to my attention that some people are rather at odds as to what to do with a terminally ill fish.Rather than see people flush their fish, chuck them against walls and floors, feed them to other fish, and generally drug them with acidic chemicals etc, I thought the subject warrants a bit of investigation, and as usual id love to hear what you lot usually do, mistakes you have made, things you could suggest, and generally contribute our collective experiences to the conversation

Now, as far as I know there are a few certain ways to kill a fish as quickly and humanely as possible, and theres some interesting data around as to what is and isnt a humane way to do it.

1) My prefferred method- the violent , rapid and complete death of the fish by sudden and totally destructive impact.Usually hitting said fish with a hammer against a hard surface or other suitable large blunt object.

reasons for this being my prefferred method.

A) its unbeatably quick.
b) the brain has no physical sensation of its own and there is simply no time for pain to be registered before the brain is crushed and all electrical activity ceases.With small fish it utterly kills all of the body simultaeneously thus preventing any possibility of suffering immediately.

drawbacks and limitations.

a) its gory and unpleasant to watch,some people are quite simply incapable of doing it for this reason.
b) some fish have secondary nerve cores near the midpoint in the spine that recieve nerve information also, so obviously the bigger the fish, the harder it is to kill painlessly.
c) whatever you do -dont miss! This is tricky for greiving pet owners,but its a bit less random than throwing aforesaid fish at a hard surface, which may stun it, but not actually kill it. You might just break its bones and rupture organs , or paralyse it, and it not actually be dead.

Ok so far ive heard that people may do the following.
1) Freeze the fish- ok theres a problem here - some research has shown that nerves in a fish, and even amphibians and reptiles over such a short period of temperature change may remain active right up until the point that cells begin to explode- Aaargh! So its possible that a fish may feel its outer layers freezing before respiration and brain activity ceases completely.They are far less likely to suffer cardiac arrest or shock related deaths than a mammal would be in the same situation. Their nerves stay active for longer.In any case its no more pleasant a death than a fish that suffers thermic shock in a regular aquarium, although it may be that bit quicker. Prhaps cooling before freezing might help, ensuring the fish has become more dormant before freezing. Maybe just the fridge compartment rather than the freezer may be more humane? Even this would depend on the fish's biology being compatable with hibernation stimulation or other similar biological responses.

2)Allowing the fish to suffocate out of water- ok another problem, the veins in the gills are actually crushed upon leaving the water,this is why they suffocate, and this is more like strangling someone to death rather than just subjecting them to lack of suitable breathable gases. Not nice.Doubtless its painful.

3) Death by injection.- has problems for a few reasons, first it involves the perforation of some quite small animals with a really quite large needles, that alone seems pretty uneccesary pain when you could just splat the fish in one. Second a lot of compounds used for killing animals are not tested on fish or reptiles, and a lot of people believe that the concentrations used to actually kill some animals are not only deliberately deadly, but are so chemically incompatible with the more sensitive species tissues that there are corrosive effects, including burst veins and blood vessels, and in fish too small to intraveinously inject there could be significant corrosive damage prior to death. Most people are unaware that even putting a mammal to sleep humanely will often require three injections, one to make the animal sleepy, one to paralyse the muscles, and then perhaps a lethal dose of either the aforementioned drugs.Cant imagine a humane way to do all that to a fish.

4)Severing the head. - some fishs brains are not even precisely in the position that most humans would describe as the head, often being further forward or back than you might imagine, and as previously stated with a secondary nerve core in the body. So while severing heads will undoubtedly kill the fish they may survive headless for several minutes, experiencing great pain.

5) letting te fish die on its own- well it depends on the condition, but obviously we are trying not to let things get that far, or be that slow.

6) Feeding sick fish to other fish- obviously this has disease implications and is generally ill advised, even though most predators may have increased resistance to the diseases of its "natural "prey.Obviously a sick goldfish would not be a natural prey item for a non-asian fish.

Does anyone know of a way to kill fish that beats basically splatting them, or even a TESTED chemical that will knock them out painlessly WITH a humane method of administration? Id love to think there was a serious painless alternative.

Argue and discuss



Last edited by longhairedgit at 12-Oct-2005 09:24

In any case, I know clove oil is used to put expensive koi under when going in for surgeries, etc, so makes sense that what can knock out can also kill.

You have a point there Kitten, I didn't know clove oil was used to anaesthetise koi for surgery.

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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

If you can obtain supplies of it, a chemical called MS-222 is an ideal euthanising agent for fishes. The only trouble from my standpoint here in the UK is that it's on the restricted medicines list as cited by the various Acts of Parliament pertinent to veterinary practice. Consequently, most UK aquarists will find it difficult to obtain. MS-222 is used as a fish anaesthetic in low doses, and is therefore probably the most humane euthanising agent available. However, it is also EXTREMELY expensive - £100 for 100 grams!

Easier to obtain, and likely to be relatively quick and humane, is Derris root. This contains a natural insecticide called rotenone, which quickly acts upon a fish and kills it. It has the advantage from the standpoint of a fish farm that a large food fish killed with Derris root is safe for human consumption - rotenone is very specific in its toxicity to insects and lower vertebrates. Mammals are unaffected by it except in ridiculous quantities - you'd probably kill yourself from your stomach exploding with the sheer volume of material consumed before any toxic effects manifested themselves in you!

Derris root has the additional advantage of being biodegradable. After use in a quarantine tank, it is completely degraded and harmless after 12 days if the water is not changed.

Derris root will also wipe out undesirable aquatic insects in a pond if need be. However, if the pond contains ornamental fish, remove them before adding the Derris root, and do NOT replace the fish until at least 14 days have elapsed!



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I'm with Little_fish on this one... my fish are generally small and ice water does the trick. I've tried vodka... did NOT work. The fish was swimming about neat as you please in a cup mostly filled with vodka. Maybe danios have a high tolerance for alcoholic beverages?

In any case, I know clove oil is used to put expensive koi under when going in for surgeries, etc, so makes sense that what can knock out can also kill. I think normally when using clove oil, it is suggested that you then freeze the fish or otherwise make sure of death before burial/flushing.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Only method I've ever used was the first one I ever had to do...that was sharp blow to the head. I've had the freezing the fish debate so many times I dont even bother anymore. All my euthanisation requirements so far have been to small fish, usually I'm netting them out thinking they've already past when it gives one final attempt. Closest thing is grabbed and I end it. Only once have I had to do it twice.

Just the act of netting them out in the first place is adding stress for them, adding more on top....well...

As for letting them die on their own, not only slow but if the fish isnt in q-tine you run the risk that they pass on whaterver to whomever decides to take a nibble.

It's intersting that this came up again as just yesterday I was debating euthanising one of my gold barbs...That thread can be found [link=here]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/The%20Hospital/60845.html?07244837#" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link].

No matter what any of us decide it's a tough choice.

^_^[hr width='40%']"So take the photographs, and still frames in your mind.
Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time...
It's something unpredictable, but in the end is right
[link=I hope]http://babelfish.qwertydigital.com/" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] you had the time of your life"

I've always been instructed to use a heavily concentrated solution of baking soda. This usually kills the fish within 10 mins in a peaceful manner.

Very nice thread and interesting options

As has been said earlier, we have this conversation about once every 3 months, at least

Never ever did we conclude that one method is the ultimate solution (what else is new *lol), but most commonly people say that the clove oil is the best way to go.

Personally, I use ice water and drop the fish in. Within a maximum of 2 seconds all is over and the fish goes into shock and dies, in particular because I only have small fish. I know it is not the fastest way in the world, but easy access to water and ice as well as no splattering of fish parts makes it my option.

Then, there is a whole other aspect of fish death that I just thought about. In random order, as my thoughts come up:

- Are we transferring our own fear of death to the fish and that’s why we assume he will suffer so much?
- How does a fish experience pain? For example, how much does it hurt a fish to have a hole in the head (Hole in the head disease)?
- As we usually don’t euthanize healthy fish, how much pain did the fish already have, and for how long, even before we start the procedure (whichever one)?
- If we are so concerned about seconds towards a fish’s death (and I confess to spend quite some time thinking about this unfortunate job), how come we never talk about the other phase before death and concern ourselves with “How long do I let a fish suffer in a QT before I decide to euthanize”. That might be a good topic.
EDIT: (one more) - Are we transferring our experience of pain to the fish? For example, if we would lose an eye we would be in pain; a fish that lost an eye in a fight just keeps on swimming as if nothing happened.

Just thought I throw this in the mix for you guys to think about it.

Thanks,

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 12-Oct-2005 14:14

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