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In the past week, I've lost 3 fish. The one thing I've noticed is a black widow having a white glumpy poop (looks mucusy), he looks thin. All the fish died quickly. Here's my tank info:
26 US gal.
temp 78
NitrAte - 20
NitrIte - 0
Ammonia - 0
Ph - 6.0

It's an established tank, over 3yrs. Lots of driftwood. I do a weekly gravel vac/ water change of 3 gals per week. The filter is Tetratec power filter.
Fish:
5 Black widows
2 gold rams
2 glowlight tetras
2 albino corys
1 bristle nose
The fish I lost were 2 glowlights and albino cory.

Let me know if you need any other info. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

probabbly a parasite...
i would recomend jungle labs antiparasite formula and also there are other atiparasitical medicines, but that is the only one i remember off hand...

longhairedgit or keigtgh will probably give yous more specific instructions, but that is what it looks like.

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Nitrates at 20? maybe you need to look into that.....first

Did you introduce any new fish recently? Did you feed the fish and wild caught food? If it a paprsite than where did it come from?

It can't hurt you to treat the tank for parasites, if you have the meds there, or have extra cash.



Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

It sounds like your nitrates are rather high - could be stressing out your fish. Do several water changes and try to get thoses down first, then use something like parasite clear (white fizzy tablets) and see if that helps. Many fish are very sensitive to nitrates - and 20 is pretty high. That could actully have been what killed your fish.

Nitrates at 20? maybe you need to look into that.....first

Many fish are very sensitive to nitrates - and 20 is pretty high.

20ppm Nitrates is high?? IMO 20ppm is well within the acceptable range for a FW tank.
I agree with Two Tanks - some fish are more sensitive to nitrate than others, but the stocking list given are all relatively generic fish that AFAIK are not renowned for being overly sensitive.

Bettafin - you mentioned odd looking poo & wasting in one of the fish, did the ones that died exhibit these or any other symptoms or changes in behaviour prior to death?
Parasites have been mentioned already and my first thought when someone mentions strange poo and weight loss is worms so that could be the cause - a course of anti parasite / worming meds may be in order - if you go for a commercially available fish med follow the directions on the pack re dosage and follow up care (water changes, repeat treatments etc) carefully.

Good luck & let us know how the fish progress.

G_T





Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

G_T & All,

The fish that died did not have any weird poop. They were distressed like fighting for air.

The tank does have an air stone that runs 24/7, and has live plants as well.

The only thing new in the tank was new plants about a month ago. I cleaned them well before placing them in the tank.

I did a 15% water change and started treating for parasites with the fizzy tabs. All the other fish seem to be doing fine.

I want to thank all for their input.

the specimens that died could have been affected in a different way... usually once an idivuidual has a parasite, they are easily infested by viruses or bacteria that they can usually ward off, but the immune reduction helps the smaller and weaker organisms attack. they could have died due to a combo of different causes... but keep up treatment and the rest of your fish should be ok!

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Since my last post, I've lost both glowlights in the last 48 hrs. (1 each day). I've done a water change before doing two treatments. Everyone looks ok, except for the black widow that had the mucusy looking poop. He's thin, but active and eating. Plus he's still schooling with the rest of his buddies.

Protozoa can take out the immune system and cause borderline nutrient depletion, the net effect of which is gastrointestinal distress, and the opportunity for any one of hundreds of ambient bacteria and fungi to take hold, so while the root cause might be protozoa the fish might drop from what looks like a diverse selection of secondary ailments that thanks to the loss of the immune system. Its a bit like no-one really dies of aids itself, but they are lacerated and destroyed by numerous common bacteria and viruses, even cancer that thanks to aids they no longer have a resistance or white cell reaction to.

Generally once the protozoa have been killed by meds like metronidazole, or as is perhaps most practical, a course of jungle labs antiparasite formula, youll often start noticing other minor meds like pimafix and melafix, the various organic dyes and even the true antibiotics and furans suddenly having a better, much more permanent effect on the secondary fungal and bacterial issues.

Once you remove a cause of immuno-suppression like protozoa and a few other parasites, all of a sudden with the fishs immune system helping as it should do under normal circumstances, other treatments can once again become really effective. Often when a fish is immuno suppressed you can spend weeks throwing anitibiotics and contact antibacterials and antifungals at it, only to keep it on the borderline of death. Deal with the immuno suppression and the fish can recover.

Its often a two-layered problem, but recognition of the situation is often difficult to percieve for a beginner with a touch of purely linear thinking and not much experience, people often see disease and go to treat that, but dont think about what makes the fish susceptible to what should be an entirely resistable disease in the first place.

Deal with the immuno suppression with the correct drug, then clear the secondary infections with the usual meds.Its a common perception that the second infection is actually the primary, and often its a mistake. Healthy fish are usually very resistant to disease, and your real causes behind disease outbreaks are immuno suppressants like low oxygen levels, poor hygeine, the wrong temps and ph, high nitrates, a few viruses, and ever more increasingly common- protozoa.

LFS culture often fails to confront protozoan ailments, they are used to keeping up appearances on fungi and bacteria, and other protozoa like whitespot that have a highly visible presence, but because they use UV sterilizers most of them practise the suppression of internal protozoa rather than cure. Fish are generally coprophageous, meaning they eat poo occassionally, and get protozoa direct that way from the gut contents of other fish, something that UV cant prevent. Even a chunk of poo can go through a uv chamber protecting its protozoan contents, so they cant even stop it getting from aquarium to aquarium unless they have set exposure times in mixer chanbers, a very, very expensive piece of equipment, and often huge too. Most shops use inline UV , often hugely underrated for the flow rate, and while it kills some bacteria and protozoa it doesnt get the lot, or get to the stuff encased in crap.

On the UV system protozoa like hexamita stay low in number, they reproduce often, but flagellate stages get fried by UV, but whats in the poo gets to other fish. The UV keeps the infection level lower than it would otherwise be, and its entirely possible an entire linked system of aquaria in a fish shop could have ensured literally every fish on it has perhaps contracted protozoa at a low level, yet the symptoms dont show.

The conception of what fish protozoa like hexamita can affect is also a problem, we know that cichlids are often decimated by it, but that is not to say other fish dont get it, most species of fish can contract and carry it, its just not so immediately lethal to them, indeed some fish live with protozoa all their lives and never die from it, but it varies by species and population immunity. A goldfish might give your oscar hexamita which will die, yet the goldfish could have made 20 years never showing a major symptom, and in the barb, carp, tetra and catfish groups only a tiny proportion might ever succumb. Some people have old tank survivors of plagues past (often catfish and barbs)that ritually reinfest new fish , effectively killing them off, yet never showing a single symptom themselves. Protozoan development is also partially affected by available nutrients, species, and environmental changes, they can be dormant for months, even years, then something changes, and all of a sudden its tank armageddon.

Typically though, once off the UV system and in the home, these protozoa increase in number and start to take the fish down. Basically its a gap in treatment perceptions and protocols, a top down situation from breeders to importers and shops, and its inevitably something more fishkeepers will have to become more aware of, and deal with. Its hellish trying to control protozoa in a commercial setting, just think if you wanted to run a guaranteed protozoa free shop, youd have to clean every pipe, remove every substrate, every plant , run massive UV, purge the tanks of any and all untreated fish that have not been treated simeultaeniously, quarantine and treat every new fish off the main system, and only then offer them for sale. Nobody does that. Nobody. No-ones LFS is going to take every fish they have off sale and treat, or do a major system wide clean up just because a few customers complain fish from them came with hexamita. Hell, even the breeders and importers wont do it for the LFS either, as a private owner with a infinitesmal purchase power, youve got no chance. Look at the perceptions of quarantine too, most LFS think quarantine is a week! Never mind the 2-6 months it would really need to be. No stockist is prepared to hold imported fish that long.If stockists held fish for even a singular month freshwater whitespot and oodinium would be almost unseen in the hobby. No ones doing it, and if they say they are, theyre BS'ing you.

Its the same with marines, living rock and brooklynella and marine ich too. You cant take the word of someone with a UV system that their fish are clear. They just couldnt know, 99% of the fish would be asymptomatic, yet ALL of them might have been exposed to infection, and the eventual survival rate of the fish down to resistance and how conducive the destination tank and species are to reproduction of protozoa. Thus the LFS retains some plausable deniability and never do anything about the situation. In cursory cases often the nutritional balance the fish is given will be blamed,lots of people have a huge mental difficulty grasping the difference between a genuine dietary deficiency and a pathogenically inflicted nutrient drain, and a favourable response in a proportion of fish in response to dietary change and a temporary reduction in visible symptoms like HLLE can often confuse matters and skew diagnosis making the observer believe the nutritional change was a cure in stead of what it actually is, which is using conditioning to provide temporary relief. Its also an excuse used by the less reputable cichlid breeders and marine suppliers to keep flogging infected fish.

A good proportion of fish with protozoa never show HLLE anyway, but it doesnt mean they dont have it. Most of the non-cichlid groups never show HLLE.

In its journey to your ownership a fish might well be exposed to antibiotics, antifungals and contact antibacterials, but few will have been treated for internal protozoa, the problem is passed on to the new owner, and it has to be dealt with.