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Acriflavine can be effective against external infections and protozoan infestations.

I hope the airstones are simply supplemental. What kind of filtration do you have? Hopefully, that is not being turned off because that will create bad bacteria in a big way.

I don't have CO2 injection so I don't have to worry about that. I plan on using this aquarium more as a quarantine tank, so it will only host 1-2 fish at a time. No more than that. I guess that will be OK

I should have said 1 tsp per US gallon. I don't know how that translates into litres but you can try to convert using our calculators. I think there is about 3.8 litres to a US gallon.

Also, keep in mind that many hospital tanks are not cycled because medication will be used that would kill beneficial bacteria. Instead, we keep the stock level low and rely on water changes. Many people do daily water changes and I've actually done them twice daily when I was stocked higher than I wanted to be. Once again, the fish can tolerate those water changes provided you maintain a real steady temp (within 1C). I should add that this also applies to pH. When injecting co2, this can be a challenge to quickly hospitalize a sick fish. Definitely take water from the main tank and slowly trickle in new water without disturbing or splashing too much. That would result in immediate release of co2 gases and cause pH to rise too quickly.

I was thinking of following the same method with Cory to establish my quarantine tank. I have an unused small filter which I'm gonna use for this cause. I'll take out the spoonge and put it in my main tank for a couple of weeks so it can take some of the beneficial bacteria, then I'll use it in the hospital tank when a new fish is moved there.
Cory you add 1 teaspoon over 1-2 days but in how large tank? My hospital tank will be no more than 20 litres (that's 5 gal I think).
I guess Jester is right about the hospital tank cycling - I'll have to monitor that carefully. But I really don't want to risk another infection spreading to my main tank so the quarantine tank sounds to me like the only way.

Thank you both once again for your help

The only thing I use in quarantine with new fish that aren't sick is Melafix or Pimafix as it is gentle, and a very small amount of freshwater aquarium salt (1 tsp per gallon predissolved and added over 1-2 days). The reason I do these things is because the fish was netted. Some of the fish stores around me use the same nets to take out dead fish as they do to bag my fish. ]:|. Body Fungus or Mouth Fungus, two very common infections that can strike after transfer, are caused when microscopic knicks get into the skin. It usually appears within 72 hours after transport. The openings plus the stress allows the fish to get sick.

I just use a quarantine tank that is severely understocked. I have also put a sponge filter in my main tank a few weeks prior to seed, then I transfer it and some of the main tank water to the hospital tank. When I don't have a seeded filter, I use an old fashioned corner filter or whatever it is called (link below). I put a handful of seeded surface gravel in the bottom, followed by filter floss. Then, I squeeze my sponge filter in my main tank so that some of the "juice" goes into the floss. Pretty much instant seeding if the bioload is light. In extreme cases, I have done 20-25% water changes daily, but the trick is to maintain the temp within 1-1.5F.

Always give fish security with a fake plant or cave.

Here is the filter style. It runs on an air pump. They show activated carbon in the bottom. I use seeded gravel instead. And, I add activated carbon after any medication is used, like when it is a true hospital tank and not a quarantine. I always leave the carbon out initially tho.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3918&N=2004+113426

Minimum recommended quarantine time is 3 weeks. Observe and treat accordingly. But, the first 72 hours you watch for flicking, scratching or fuzziness. After that, you need to watch for something more stealthy like septicemia (caused by aeromonas infection) for up to 8 days. Some parasites can take time and tht is why we go up to 3 weeks.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 30-Mar-2005 07:09

Glad you found something i said useful, Torm. And i'm also pleased you have had no more deaths.

Hospital tanks are always a thing of varied opinion. The main 'problem' with a quarantine/hospital tank is that it is generally not cycled - so you can expect problems with nitrates and ammonia at some time during the quaratine period. This is not a big problem as a hospital tank, because you are adding bacteria/cycle destroying chemicals to the tank, so you can't expect a cycle. The way to compensate for the high ammonia and nitrates is to increase the regularity of water changes. I us 10% every 2 days MAXIMUM.

As for adding chemicals before you see illness, your wasting money and not really helping the fish. Just put them in the tank, slowly adjust pH temp etc. to your main tank, and observe them. You should find diseases show up in a week or so. Do the 10% water changes, and make sure you monitor the tank parameters, and everything should be fine. If you find an ammonia or Nitrate spike, increase the regularity of your water changes. Simple.

Oh, and if you are concious of water use, like i am because we are in drought in Australia, then re-use the change water on your plants. I find my pot plants thrive on the high(relative to tap water) phosphorus and nitrogens (nitrates etc.) in the water. And they need watering anyway... so double bonus!

Very good post Jester .I've already stopped adding salt and I'll keep it this way to see how things will go. I still haven't suffered any more loses and it's been more than a week, which is surely a good sign.

The salt used is aquarium salt bought from my LFS. I don't know the brand, but I don't think that matters much either

I'm setting up a quarantine-hospital tank now. Do you use any medication when you quarantine a new fish (something for bacteria maybe?), even before showing any signs of illness, or do you just observe them for 2-3 weeks for any signs of illness before giving any medication?

What kind of salt is being used?

I still think you are adding to much salt. The salt does not evapourate, the only way to remove it is to remove water. But, when you pull 35L's of water out of the tank, you are not removing the 1 teaspoon of salt you are adding back into the tank. I'd suggest that you are slowly increasing the concentration of salt in your tank, and that you will eventually have problems with it at your current dose rate.

My advice to you is the same as given to me by a now silent fish guru from this site - there is no need to add salt. If your water conditions are good, you will not have problems with ich or finrot, which are the main reasons people suggest you add salt.

As for your kH:"Water accumulates many dissolved substances before it reaches our taps. Hardness is a measurement of the concentration of metal ions such as calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc. Most of these concentrations are acquired as rain water passes over rocks. In most water it consist mainly of calcium and magnesium salts, with trace amounts of other metals.
There are two types of hardness that we need to consider. Permanent hardness and alkalinity (often referred to as carbonate or temporary hardness) (kH). The sum of both types of hardness is called general hardness (gH)
Alkalinity or temporary (carbonate) hardness (kH) refers to the hardness derived mainly from carbonate and bicarbonate ions and directly reflects the buffering capacity of the water. It can be precipitated and removed by boiling the water. This is why lime-scale forms in kettles and shower heads." -> quote from http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

So, salt = sodium chloride. There is no/very little carbonate in pure sea salt/aquarium salt, so it will not show up on your kH or gH tests. You will need to measure the conductivity of the water to determine it's salinity.

Last edited by jester_fu at 28-Mar-2005 17:37

Congratulations on the turnaround. Hopefully, all will be well now.

If you are not home during a power failure, you are powerless to do anything. Some people use UPS units to buy them time.

There's never 100% guarantee that your fish would get sick in such a situation. It's merely a risk.

I'm fortunate that my 73 year old mother lives with me and knows to contact me when I'm not home if power goes out more than 5 minutes. I'll often have her just unplug the filter so it can't go back on, then plug it back in if the outage is less than an hour. If I can, I try to come home when she tells me the power is back on so I can get the filters running.

During our big blackout when a large portion of the US lost power, we were without for 36 hours. Some people didn't bother to unplug their pumps and just let them go back on when power returned. Fish stores in my area said that many people made this mistake and in the following weeks and people were reporting heavy losses 1-3 weeks later.

I don't think there is any real big problem with a hour or two, but when it is a long outage is pull the plug.

I also use battery operated air pumps. They sell them here in the US. They plug into the outlet and when power is lost they kick in. It doesn't help the pump, but works well in the main tank to circulate water up where it can pick up oxygen. Hagen and Penn Plax are the two brands I'm aware of. Azoo makes one that is very expensive that will run 14 hours continuously or 28 hours every 50 seconds on and off, but it is a permanent pump with a chargeable battery. Something like that is best for running a UGF because they fould quickly when power is cut.

I didn't lose one fish to the big black out, but I had two battery operated air pumps running, unplugged my filter and was able to slow the temperature drop from 75 to 68F (ambient air temp of my basement despite 90F temp outside).

No the filter never turns off.
I was thinking what can I do to prevent such a disaster in case of a long power failure. Do you use a UPS or have you thought of something else for this case?

It's been almost a week with no dead fish, so I guess I won't be needing any more help. There will be a new post if things start going bad again. Thanks to everyone that has replied to my post!

Well, you said you run two airstones during the day and shut them at night. This means it is added oxygen during the day, or "supplemental". It's "in addition to".

As long as you don't power off your internal filter your fine.

Any filter which has nitrifying bacteria in it can foul in as little as one hour of power being cut. Aerobic bacteria uses up the last of the oxygen in the filter, then anaerobic bacteria takes over. Anaerobic grows where there is no oxygen. It is responsible for very deadly infections. Many people's fish can survive a power outage, then experience either heavy/acute die-off or more slow/chronic die off in the days and weeks that follow. For this reason, it is wise to never cut power for more than 30 minutes or so (to be safe), unless you are prepared to clean out the filter and remove the stagnant water so it cannot spew back out into the tank. Marineland recommends that when power goes out, the filter be disconnected so it is not allowed to simply turn back on by itself. If it is less than 1 hour, turn it back on. If it is one hour or more, the water must be dumped and the filter cleaned. With smaller filters I would go with the 30 minute rule.

I always ask people who are having die off if they have lost power or cut power intentionally for the reason stated above.

What do you mean by the airstones being supplemental Cory?
I have an internal filter with spoonge and ceramics. No active carbon. I think it's good enough for my aquarium and for my stock, because I've always had excellent measurements in my water quality tests.

The 2nd dose of the medicine will go in the aquarium today. I hope it will be enough. I haven't had any deaths for a few days and that can only be a good sing

Hi all!

I've been losing fish about 4 per week with no apparent reason. First I lost 2 plecos, then 2 female platties (the one of them looked just fine the day before and the next day it was dead) and last night one male guppy. The guppy was sitting on the bottom in the morning breething fast. His colour was ok and he didn't have any strange sings, just a small cut on his tail. He had this behavour for until the afternoon and then he died.
The other fish that died had no signs of illness on them, they just seemed to lose appetite and movement for a day and then passed out.
The aquarium is 130 litres hosting about 20 adult fish and 15 fry (all fry guppies, adult fish are 3 swordtails, 1 angelfish, 3 corys and the rest are guppies)and is set up for the last 6 months. The temp is set to 27 C. Tests on water showed PH: 7.3 NH2: 0, NH3:10, AMMONIA:0, KH: 11, GH: 5. I do water changes every 2 weeks,vacuming the bottom and add 1 teaspoon of water for every 35 litres. After the fish started dying I made 3 water changes of 10 litres for 3 consecutive days without adding any salt. The water was treated as always and about the same temperature with the aquarium water. In the 4 day the male guppy died, so I did not do another water change.. the water changes didn't seem to help this poor guy.

Any ideas what could be the problem?

cory: The medicine is called Baktopur and it's made by Sera. It contains acriflavine, methylene blue, phenylglycol, aqua purificata ad. I haven't seen any signs on any other fish. Is small cuts on guppy tails a sign of bacteria? I have a couple with small cuts on their tails, but I guess this could be an accident. Current temp is 27 C, but I'll lower it to 25 as you suggested for as long as I'll be making this treatment.

tankie: No I have no living plants, just a few fake ones and some rocks. There is an airpump with two airstones that provides the aquarium with air from 8 in the morning till midnight (I shut it off when I go to sleep cause it's too damn noisy). I think that must be OK.

I used the medicine and it seems that it did some good to my pleco. He used to be hidden in a hole all day long the previous days, but he is acting much more energetic today, leaving his hiding hole quite often.

what abt the oxygen content of the tank....do u have living plants in the tank??

I'm not sure about the salt so I'll let Jester comment on that.

White around the mouth, - yes, could be columnaris. Usually you would see more visible signs on other fish.

Columnaris can grow on uneaten food, raising the amount of the bacteria in the water column. For each fish carrying it, that also contributes to what is in the water column. It pretty much requires some type of injury or opening to take root, even a microscopic knick.

If you suspect columnaris, definitely keep the temp below 77F (25C), but lower it only 1C daily. At 25C columnaris moves faster.

Good luck with your med. I hope it works. Does it say what is in it? I would monitor ammonia daily starting about 2 days after you begin dosing it and for several days after you are done using it.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 24-Mar-2005 08:16

Cory_Di: Unfortunately Hikari is not available in my country. :#(
I had a conversation yesterday with someone from my LFS and he said it sounds like some kind of bacterial infection to him. He said he's got something that will help... hopefully.
Jester_fu: I add 1 teaspoon of salt for every 35 litres of water, not 4 for every 25. I think this dose is OK (it was recommended to me to use 1 teaspoon for 20 litres of water and I use the same for every 35).But I've stopped the salt and since then I had a 36 L water change and 3 10L ones. If the salt was too much shouldn't it appear on the KH readings on my test?

UPDATE: Last night I noticed a tiny white patch next to the mouth of one of my swordtails. I guess this is cotton mouth right? So it is bacterial infection after all?

Nice catch, Jester!!! I hope it is that simple. Makes perfect sense.

Definitely gradually drop it or you risk osmotic shock.

Don't know why i didn't notice it before, but you're adding about 4 teaspoons of salt every 2 weeks to the tank, but only removing 26L(guessing 20%, so 26L) of water? Correct me if i'm wrong, but if i'm not, then possibly your salinity is just raging out of control... You should only be re-treating with salt for every 1L of water you remove. So, if you remove 26L, only add 1/2 teaspon of salt. The only way to remove salt from the tank is with water changes, and even then you will find (if you do the maths) that the concentration of salt increases every time you add more, regardless of how much water you remove and retreat (excluding 100% water changes).

I'd be stopping with the salt. Period. Keep doing your 10L Daily water changes for 13 days (so that you've almost 'flushed' the tank), and this will reduce your salt concentration to an acceptable level. Then, start doing weekly water changes of 20% (26L) with your gravel Vacuum.