FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Because there are several different species of the ich parasite that may have different effects on trops, we tend to generalize a little...

There are many cases where some fish in an infected tank will contract ich while others will not.

The immunity factor always comes into play with trops that may have been exposed to the parasite, survived the episode and built an immunity to future invasion.

Other trops, because of good health reasons, have a built-in immunity. Some species of fish the ich parasite just can't tolerate and will not attack. That's one reason why some trops in the same tank will become infected while others may not.

Fish carriers of ich?? Probably not. The parasite would have to burrow into the skin of the fish and remain there without producing offspring, not a natural procedure for this troublesome parasite.

--garyroland.

What the Rainman was talking about has been brought forward for many years and may have some credence in some circles of fishkeeping.

He's kept probably hundreds of fish over the years and I've kept a large amount as well.

I haven't experienced ich for years on any of my trops and continue to be ich free to this date with a new batch of fancy Gups and Cories.

The tanks I've treated for others with ich seem to have a common denominator. The temps are, or were at that time, all under 78 degrees, 26c.

My tanks are constantly at 80-82 degrees, 27-28c, fully realizing the ich parasites have a problem with heat.

--garyroland.

It's always a relief when a problem seems to be over. I hope that yours if over for good and won't return for a long, long, long time...As for me...50% water change tonight, sounds like fun, want to join me?

And AcidRain, they are always saying that we have AcidRain here by the chemical plants, but I have yet to see you here...are you hiding from me?

[/font]

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Just to update all, and especially you Gary for your assistance

The tank is now re-cycling after treatment and all ich infestation seems clear.

Several losses occured, but no new ones after the initial losses.
Thanks to all & happy fish-keeping
Deb

In wildness, nature is not human-hearted!

In a case like that there must be a ton of weak trops lately that have been reported with ich...

We get threads all the time complaining of ich infestations, some extensive, some not.

Since ich is a burrowing parasite, I see no relationship between the gill residers and the skin-burrowing favorites. I don't know if all the ich parasites have been identified or not but I have a feeling they're all geared to reproduce one way or the other.

Nor do I know if the "gill" parasites are capable of living off the fluids of the fish for very long without becoming extremely huge.

Anybody ever seen a fat ich parasite??

--garyroland.

not meaning the same single parasite lives there, but more of a long term multi reproductive line of them. There have been many a study done on fish that have lived in an aquarium for long periods of time, without any sign of ich, and nothing added or done to the tank, except normal tank management. And when they have discected the fish, they actually have found the ich parasite living in the fishes gills. It is just that the fish's immunity system keeps it under control, untill stressed at which time lowers the fish's immunity system, and the outbreak of ich takes over. Which in turn lowers the fish's immune system lower, causing more stress, and so on, and so on, ect.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

"...As for the ich, it has been said that ich is actually present and lives in many fish for their entire lives,"...

Well, Rainman, that's a good bedtime story but not for the experienced hobbyist.

The parasite will burrow under the trops skin for awhile, living off the trops fluids and producing a tiny pimple.

Itching will occur and within a few days the parasite will reach about one millimeter, drop off the fish to the bottom and form a cyst where the little buggers break up into anywhere from several hundred to several thousand.

The very purpose of the parasite is to grow and reproduce, not sit stagnant waiting for the grand opportunity to multiply.

Where does the ich parasite come from originally??

Good question.

--garyroland.

vitimizatiOn wrote=you got the water from the rain?

It could of been acid rain or something.

It was not, I had absolutely nothing to do with it. Quit trying to get me into trouble vic.


As for the ich, it has been said that ich is actually present and lives in many fish for their entire lives, unless treated. But, their immunity keeps it controlled. However, when stressed, their immunity level drops, and the ich can get out of control. So, it is maybe that your fish became stressed for some reason during the water change, and then could not control it. And the few that did not become stressed, for what ever reason, could control it, until it was dealt with by you.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

i'm really sorry bout all this Deb, it seems to be happenning all over recently, i dont know what's going on
I'm really really sorry about your BGK He was cute.


And well, it could be a short-term carrier, like a few days or so at a very small size, and if that particular fish can throw it off, it could work that way. I

Do they have a long term dormancy stage? They would have to surely, ich shows up when there have been no new introductions (even no water changes for months sometimes)
Otherwise how would it get there??

Last edited by Callatya at 23-Nov-2004 08:18

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Well it's happened to me for the first time.
I did a water change 2 wks ago and lost not only 6 tetras, but my absolutely gorgeous BGK. and now am also fighting ick on the angels/barbs/loaches & gouramis.

Have no idea what happened. The water change was exactly the same as it's always done. It had rained 2 days earlier so I checked the water from the taps which come from the house's rainwater tank. All tests come up perfect (ph, kh, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, iron, phosphates, and I even tested for copper - zilch).

After that I climbed up on the tank with a torch to see if there was something like frogs or a dead bird/mouse/something - nothing.

Have been keeping the temp up a couple of degrees this week and treating with 1/2 dose of Methylene blue/Malachite Green White spot cure. The fish left seem to be coping but don't want to use full strength because of the loaches, plec & pictus cats.

BTW, I also did water changes the same day on the other 3 tanks & nothing happened.

When I cleaned the filter I tested it's water too (zilch problem there too). It now has new carbon and added cycle to it as well with a water change.

Life's not too simple at the moment (The joy of it
all) So anyone else - sometimes there just isn't an answer is there.

OOOPS, JUST REALISED THIS IS IN THE WRONG PLACE & SHOULD BE IN THE HOSPITAL FORUM - SORRY GUYS AND PLEASE SHIFT IT FOR ME TO THE RIGHT PLACE


Last edited by debbiemc at 18-Nov-2004 05:47

Last edited by debbiemc at 18-Nov-2004 05:49

In wildness, nature is not human-hearted!

Thank you Gary for your help with my thoughts on the Ich.

For anyone who would like to know, I had turned my tank's temp up to 30*C & increased surface agitation to keep the oxygen levels up because I thought I had read a long time back that Ich can be killed/thwarted in this manner and Gary has helped clarify that for me.

This is what was missing from the article I had read:
That by turning up the temp eggs of the ich parasite are encouraged to hatch more quickly allowing the appropriate medication to kill the new parasites.

The important thing here is that treatment must continue long enough to kill all hatched eggs, not just the first or second batch. (This is a little like human "nits" - the adult can lay hundreds of eggs, continuously, but the medication only kills the hatched eggs, not the eggs themselves).

Generally raising the temp & keeping oxygen levels up for about 10 days and using the meds should help to get rid of the Ich.

Clown Loaches can also handle a slowly raised temp up to 35*C and can be cured of the Ich without the use of meds.

Currently I am dosing at 1/2 strength with the meds because of several different types of scaleless fish and the temp has been up at 30*C all this week. The barbs, Gouramis and Angels have lost all but a couple of spots left on the barbs and none of the fish appear to be suffering any adverse effects at this point.

It should also be noted that many aquariums can or do have the ich parasite hovering in there, but may not show itself
until there is a fish that is stressed or it's immune system is compromised when it will succumb to the parasite, while at the same time not all fish in the tank will or may not show any symptons.

Gary, could you confirm for me also if it is known that a fish that has been cured of ich may (not necessarily will), develop an immunity to the parasite whilst at the same time possibly becoming a carrier of it?

My thanks to Gary here for his help and I hope this also helps many of you too. (I know Gary's assistance to me in the past has helped to "fix" several problems in my initial set-ups a long time ago and also to prevent many problems that may have occured had I been ignorant of preventative measures).

Regards all,
Deb

Oh BTW, victimisati0n, where I live it's highly unlikely to acid rain so I'm sure that wasn't it. I have noticed this week though that on the odd day there appears to be toothpaste on the end of the spout (which is the bathroom's taps that I use for the tanks) - I wonder if my lovely, charming, cuddly, handsome & patient better half is to blame? Surely not, and I'll never tell him that either - will just make sure the spout is clean each time I hook up the hose.




Last edited by debbiemc at 22-Nov-2004 05:40

In wildness, nature is not human-hearted!

My very special Aussie friend mailed me sincerely concerned about her trops...

Perhaps some of the info I provided she'll share.

--garyroland.

you got the water from the rain?

It could of been acid rain or something.

I'm very sorry also
That's the most frightening part... not having any clue as to what happened, it can happen to any of us

Yeah, sometimes things just happen & there never is an explanation. Possibly the temp thing, that's about the only thing I can think of, though the BGK was 11" long & 2 yr old and has never shown anything similar. I keep a thermo on the water ingoing all the time for that reasons, but I have noticed that our filter on the house tank which is only on the cold water line does need replacing again as when it's full it does tend to cut in and out a little.

I raised the temp on the tank this last week & have noticed the barbs & gouramis now have lost the last of their white spots so will do another water change & replace the carbon this weekend and slowly lower the temp back to normal over the next week and see how all goes.

Take care guys & happy 'fishing'
Deb


In wildness, nature is not human-hearted!

So sorry to hear what's going on with your tank

Very similar situation happened to me, here is the last post I wrote about it: [link=http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/The%20Hospital/49438.html]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/The%20Hospital/49438.html" style="COLOR: #FFFFC0[/link]

Also sorry I can't offer you any advice. After pretty much a month of not knowing what was going on and many deaths I basically gave up. Stopped treatment, got the tank temp back to normal and then added a trio of guppies from another tank as a test. It's been 10 days since I did that and so far everything is ok.

Hope you get things settled and back to normal soon.


~~~~
[/font]

~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is water at the bottom of the ocean

happened to cathc this before it was moved. my 2 cents, maybe you refilled the tank faster then normal dropping the temp of that perticuler tank just slightly to fast.
just a shot in the dark.