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2 days ago I noticed that my gold severum had a large lump on its cheek and its mouth was open and not moving much (not gasping). I thought I might have seen a couple small little holes around the region, but I can't be sure. Also, the fish did not seem to want to eat. The next day it got a little cottony and it still did not eat. Now today, the swelling went down a little around the upper cheek, but now there is a big thick red streak from the top right side of its mouth to its eye. The eye seems to be popping out a little, the lower cheek still swollen a little and the cottony film still exists. Still no appetite.

120 gal.
Ph: 6.0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 20 ppm
GH: hard
KH: low

Just added salt and a little Ph up.

Fish:
4-Clown loach
2-Chocolate albino pleco
3-Turquoise severum
2-Gold Severum
2-Siamese algae eaters

All fish seem healthy and the Severums all breed like crazy. Plecos have huge barbs. Is it possible that a pleco stuck the fish with its barb? The sick fish was one of the fish who had some fry in a large flower pot that the plecos like to hang out in.

Tried to list as much as I could here........
Worried and don't want it to spread if contagious.

-Matt

sounds like it has a fungal infection to me, check out this web page it might help you out. http://www.versaquatics.com/freshwaterdiseasecharts.htm

I was thinking it could be a "External Bacterial Infection" like Columnaris. checked the boxes here
http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/diseases/ and Columnaris had some common syptoms.

Well, wondering how I should treat this. Its eye seems to be bulging pretty bad now. I might get a 30gal tomorrow and then I could quarantine it. I don't want to have to treat a 120gal tank if I don't have to. Takes a lot of meds to do that$$$$. Don't want to treat for the wrong thing either. Probably my favorite fish in the whole tank so the other option is not preferred.

Sounds a bit serious for melafix and pimafix to make much impact. Could well be the result of a puncture wound, severums arent always slow in coming forward, and plecs arent slow to repel attackers. The swelling is obviously an immuno reaction to infection , its not always easy for a fish to ditch bacteria from a bony plate inder the skin on the head, and in that regard the fish will need antibiotic treatments, perhaps oxytetracycline, to help it out when it has no other alternative but to exit toxins out of its organs via its own immune system and metabolism. You may also find that the fluff is saprolegnia rather than columnaris, its the primary secondary infection for wounds. A good anti fungus and finrot med should help deal with this secondary fungal infection. So in answer to your question its probably both fungal and bacterial causes now afflicting the fish. Dual infections are common if not almost routine in response to injury. Choose a med that can do both symptoms in one shot if possible to save the arduous processes of dual medications or sequential treatments. See whats available at your LFS,and you'll need to be quick on this one, sounds like it could turn , or is already turning, pretty nasty. Try to catch it before it goes from a local infection to a totally systemic septacaemia.

Its probably not columnaris , or the other fish would probably have also gone a bit fluffy by now. Its just your standard necrotising bacteria , just like you would get in your finger, probably one of the almost omnipresent staphylococcus group, and the fluff is secondary saprolegnia taking advantahge of loss of skin slime in the region and exploiting the newly available nutrients in fish flesh. This is ambient bacteria and fungi yet again proving how readily available they are to turn a minor injury into a lethal situation.

Melafix and pimafix might buy you some time while your choosing a more powerful med, but it will probably take a decent full strength antibiotic to shift this infection. Keep oxygenation high, temps around 82-84f and feed the fish well with foods that would normally be considered quite fattening. Make sure the gravel is spotless, vacuum the hell out of it.


Good luck.

What I have on hand:

-Rid Ich with malachite green (been sitting in the cabinet for a while now).
-Melafix (8oz bottle I believe)
-salt
-Aquarium Pharm. Antibacterial (says it treats ulcers that big red soar from its mouth to its eye might be) but probably not enough to treat the 120 gal. more than 1 dose.

Nothing is open this late (10pm here) except W-Mart maybe. What do you think the best thing to do right now with what I have?

I was about to:

-Give the tank a nice cleaning.
-Take carbon out of filter.
-Dose Melafix.

You think I should try the malachite green? You think I could treat in a separate smaller tank?

Thanks for the great info.

Malachite green will help with external fungus, certainly, but it wont be treating the internal bacterial problem. Neither will melafix, although it will drop ambient tank bacteria some, maybe buy a little time.

Trouble is while pimafix and melafix can usually be mixed safetly with other meds, malachite green isnt a great mixer, and what you choose to do now will affect the choice of drugs you can make tomorrow.

Id probably use a combo of pimafix and furan (or oxytetracycline or maracyn two ), rather than malachite green and furan, purely out of safety , although it could possibly be done in sequence. Depends how strong you think the fish is, and how long you think you have to complete a two-course treatment of seperate meds. Its really a guess as to which you think is affecting him most, the bacteria or the fungus. Septacaemia is usually lethal, but how long it takes to happen is an unknown factor, and the fungal infection can be seen and can therefore, more or less, be gauged, bad fungal infections are also quite lethal.

Personally id prefer to hit it all at once with compatible meds or a combo treatment, but it depends what you can get hold of, and how fine were cutting it. Youre in a better position to make that judgement call than me, and I have to admit, i dont like having to make that sort of call with my own fish!

Whatever you choose, I hope it goes well.

The fish does not seem to be weakened much by whatever it has. I cleaned the tank and filters (taking carbon out) and poured in some melafix last night with the salt I added. I will try to look for a combo med. today.

Thanks for the advice. And no I am not looking for you to make decisions for me, just looking for good advice from knowledgeable people.

-Matt

Passed away this morning or afternoon. Was stuck under the driftwood when I got home from work. Looked liked the side of the face was eaten away internally (where the ulcer was) and the eye was gone. Not sure if the pleco even touched it.

None of the other fish look sick. Going to continue with the melafix dose.

I knew that Ph test result didn't sound right. Tank Ph is usually about 7.0 (tap 7.0-7.2). I have driftwood so that softens it up a little. The tap Kh is also low. So either the Ph test is incorrect because of the salt or the salt is playing nasty games with my Ph (not sure which is true so far). Hope I'm not killing my fish trying to treat them.

Severums are almost as delicate as discus , I wouldnt use salt with them personally. Sorry for the loss

Sounds like he needed antibiotics administered as soon as the injury occurred. It often hard to ascertain how much damage is being done inside a swelling until it ruptures. Oh well, thats one to chalk up to experience.

Well, my other tank had the same problem. No salt added there. hmmm.... Been reading up a little more and what i think is that it's a mixture of too much waste (although nitrate seems low), temperature (80-82 lately), and low oxygen. The low oxygen could be from the higher temp. I used to keep plants and oxygen was not a problem then and I have never had Ph problems before. I keep my spray bar and a pump close to the surface to keep the water circulating. I don't like keeping aerator since water gets on my glass canopy and causes an algae growth - annoying to clean.

I need to get used to cleaning my tanks a little more often now I guess since my fish are getting larger and get more food. Wonder if the food could be messing with the Ph too.
I don't check my tank parameter as much as I should anymore. I guess I get to assuming everything is ok.

Oh well, Gonna have to keep experimenting with everything until I figure it out.

Sounds like he needed antibiotics administered as soon as the injury occurred.

Yep, and have some meds handy just in case it happens again.