FishProfiles.com Message Forums

First, I noticed late Monday night that my female betta had what I thought was ICH. It was odd because I hadnt noticed this on her when I fed the fish about 4 hours earlier. I have Jungle ICH tabs. They are blue and you put them in the water and they dissolve. They are like effervescent(sp?) tabs. The box SAYS one dose cures within 24 hours. I dosed that tank. I looked my two paradise fish and two congo tetras, in w her, over and didnt see anything on them. When looking at my pleco, I noticed he had it also.
I looked all my other tanks over good and noticed, my male betta, in with my 4 cherry barbs, 1 rummy nose tetra and 2 albino cories, had about 5 "crystals" on him. I did not see any on my other fish. I dosed that tank.
By Tuesday morning the med had dyed the silicone on my tanks blue!
For some reason, all day Tuesday, my cherries stayed hid and once I thought one cory was dead because he was just sitting in the corner of the tank. He wasnt dead. My cherries always stay out and I havent saw them hiding in plants in a while.
Tuesday night, I could still see the crystals so I did a water change and redosed again.
When I fed my cherries that night, they seemed to care less about eating, however, the betta was eager. Now, I love my lil cherries and I didnt like seeing them acting so shy and scared. I thought maybe it was the meds making them sick or the betta was intimidating them. Ive never saw him act ugly towards them but I decided to move him out anyway. I put him a betta box thats about 9Lx3W.
So, this evening, Wednesday, the spots on the two bettas were all gone but my cherries were still hiding and didnt come out to eat. I noticed, when I opened the lid to feed this tank, that the rummy nose was dead. He had some reddening along his mouth/head. I also noticed the crystals, ICH, Im guessing, was also on my cories. There is also a white "dust" hung in the java moss and on top of my heater rim. I think this could be where the gravel wasnt rinsed well, but am not sure.
I noticed earlier tonight that my two paradise fish were nipping and following closely to one of the congos. I went to see what was up and he was swimming slowly, seemed to have no energy to avoid them. Now, orginally I thought his head was graying but I think this could have been his natural coloring. I did notice some tiny red spots up near his face and mouth. I put him in the breeder net and he slowly lost his bearings until he died about 1 1/2 hour later. The pleco has been dragging himself on the gravel all night which is something he never does. Hes always stuck to something. My other congo in this tank now as a protruding eye and his color seems to be changing. It almost appears he is turning brown, like you can see his insides. He used to be white.
My 5 hex has tiny worms stuck to the acrylic where my male betta is. For about 5 days now, his front gill, by his mouth that flares out has stayed flared. The other side is ok but this one side stays "open".
As if that isnt enough, in my LB tank, my male guppy was dead stuck to the filter pipe.
What the heck is going on here at my house???

The LB tank, paradise tank and cherry tank are all 10 gallons. In the LB tank there are 2 other guppies and a platy and black molly. The black molly looks like she has white glowing around the top of her eyes.
I have hardly ever had sick fish and havent treated sick fish in over two years.
Anyone got ideas?????? Whats going on? What should I do?
I posted about the congo earlier but decide I would repost since all this other stuff has happened. I also posted about the worms in the ODD forum. I cannot stand this!!!
The tanks are all very clean. Water is changed twice a weeks. No ammonia. NitrItes are 40 or above.

Last edited by ladiejl at 24-Nov-2005 05:30

Sounds like a nightmare. My best guess is that the meds were a bad batch, the fin nipping is persecutory behaviour in a stressful time being displayed towards poisoned or very sick fish, and that those little worms are gill flukes.The dust could be dead bacterial clusters, the meds might be affecting the filter.Possibly because the med was an effervescent type in a concentration too strong for the tank volume it might be recrystallising . Was it possible you overdosed? Ive seen lots of meds for ich , but I couldnt really say ive seen one thats truly effective in a single treatment, sounds like a dodgy med to me.Perhaps its simply too powerful to be used in a tank as small as a 10 gal.

Its a bit complicated to diagnose and treat without seeing it first hand, but id do a few extra water changes to shift the meds,and pick up some treatments for flukeworm and see how it goes.Id probably run carbon for a day or two before removing it and running some fluke meds.Flukeworm can attack eyes gills and livers so swollen eyes, and a sudden translucency to the fish might be explained by this.

Can you post a pic or two showing the worms up close, preferably shot under macro?

Last edited by longhairedgit at 24-Nov-2005 10:57

I did not overdose. I made sure that I did it right. It was one tab per 10 gallons every 24 hrs w a 25 percent water change. This is exactly what I did.

I dont see anymore ICH.

The cherries and cories are all huddled together and hid.

No more fish have died.

For some reason, I see few little worms stuck to the sides of the tank but do see what appears to be them floating in the water. These things are only about the size of the ' button on our keyboards. Smaller then that even.

My betta in the tank appears fine other than the "outed" gill.
The Congo looks to have s white spot on his eye forming.

No I cant take pics of the worms. Since they are mostly in the water and look just like specs of dust or something of the like when floating in tghe water. They are too small to show up on a cam anyway.

You say nitrItes are 40 or above....they are supposed to be 0. Even the least bit can affect your fish. If you mean nitrAtes...then it is still a little high (20-40 is normal). But I don't think it would cause all of this. Maybe someone else can give more advice.

*Kristin*

yes I meant nitrates

Start with the ich. You cannot possibly cure ich in 24hrs. It can't be done. Any medicine that says so is lying. The ich parasite goes through several stages of it's life over at least several days if not weeks. First as an egg in the gravel and throughout the tank, then as a larvae where it attaches to the fish and creates the white specks or cysts while feeding on the fish, and then drops off as an adult to lay eggs again. You cannot kill it as an egg and you cannot kill it while on the fish. You have to kill it as it drops off and gravel vacs to suck up the parasite and eggs can help. You should treat a tank for several weeks. Increasing the temp shortens the lifespan of ich so you can kill it faster but also stresses the fish more. The best treatment and prevention of ich is good water quality. A 25% water change and doing a gravel vac of 25-50% of the tank every 1-2weeks is usually the minimum but may be required twice a week. You should do enough that the nitrates stay below 40ppm at least but preferably 20 or less. Over 40ppm will definitely do damage to even hardy fish over time but will kill sensitive fish. On non planted tanks zero nitrates would be the ideal and species such as rummynose will not survive much nitrate. Dwarf puffers probably won't either when you get those. When I do use medications on ich(rarely anymore) then I dose rid ich plus. A half dose may be needed for some fish such as loaches, cories, otos, and any scaleless or very sensitive fish but I've used it on yoyo loaches and otos full strength before without problems. Most of the time just good water quality allows fish to recover just fine. Ich meds will also kill inverts(snails/shrimp) and other critters in the tank.
With all the seemingly random illnesses and mention of weird worms I wonder if you aren't quite doing enough and over time waste has built up in the tanks somewhere and caused high nitrates. Excess waste and food can lead to all sorts of critters such as planaria. Of course with such a vague description even leeches is a possibility and those will kill fish too. I would try twice a week water changes and small gravel vacs every time and see if things improve. Test for ammonia and nitrites incase you suck up too much bacteria out of the gravel and try to get nitrates well below 40.

I do total gravel vacs and about 30 percent water chnages about twice a week.

My tanks are not dirty at all.

The tank that had the worms was torn down tonight and reset up. when I siphoned out the water from the gravel, it was very clean. I dont understand how worms developed. it couldnt have been from left over food since none or waste even was in the water when I siphoned it out.

All my tanks are going to pretty much be torn down and reset up in the next week when all my new supplies arrive. The tank that had the ich will be completely took apart and everything rinsed in clean water. The fish in this tank are going to be moved to the new 29 gallon. Im getting new gravel and decor so basically I will be almost starting over. but the plants, some decor and filters will still be used. I can usually cycle a tank in about 2-3 weeks. I am really going to make sure everything is clean, set up correctly and done right this time. I dont like messy tanks or sick fish.

I dont know what the heck is going on and why this all hit su suddenly. I just checked on my cherry barbs. Two were sitting under a plant basically on top of each other. One was lying on his side. I thought he was literally going to die right then but he started swimming around. He was running into plants. The most active of the 4 is getting a white film over her body and fins..not ICH. I didnt see any ICH. My lil cories were active and happy. I fed them all but none even came out to eat but the cories. Theyve been out all day and night (Thur). Im going to bed now at 7 on Friday morn. I hope when I get up this afternoon someone has some more info for me as to what I need to do. Should I move my cories to my 5 gallon I just reset up? I dont want them to get sick too.

OHHHH...not my cherries!!!!!!!!!!!!
My fish all need get well cards!!
Ill never use that ICH med again!!!
:#(:#(:#(

If you had ich to begin with, and don't see any now, I would still get some better meds and keep treating. I have ich in my 55 and though I don't see any more spots, I'm still gonna treat for another week or two. I am using Kordon's Ich Attack, it is natural and won't hurt cories. Another suggestion I got was Kent Marine RX-P, even in a FW tank. I could not find it anywhere though. Bump the temp. up some like suggested above and keep the lights out to reduce stressing the fish.
Changing the water twice a week should help keep the nitrAtes down. Not sure if you have some live plants or not, but if so, getting more will also help. I had higher nitrates in my 10g (30-40ppm) before I planted it. Now they are only about 10-15pmm.
Be careful with any meds though. After using them for a week, I had .25ppm nitrItes and I think it caused one of my cories and 2 ottos to die.
Keep up with the water changes and keep treating for ich, with new meds, if you had it before. That should help. Other than that I don't know what would cause the fish to die. Good luck, I hope things get better soon!

*Kristin*

Nevermind....all my cherries are dead. I went to my LFS today and got Melafix and Primafix but it was too late.

Lost 5 fish so far.

If you can get the medication called Protozin, made by Waterlife UK, this should prove to be FAR more effective than those tablets. I know because [1] I've used it in the past, [2] it's worked for me every time I've needed to use it, and [3] it's safe with my Panda Corys, so it should be safe with most other fishes too (apart from the ones mentioned in the instructions that should NEVER be treated with it, i.e., freshwater rays and Mormyrids).

For Ich, treatment MUST consist of repeat medication doses for a MINIMUM of 72 hours after the last of the white cysts has fallen from your fishes. This is contintent on temperature: if you're using the meds at cooler temperatures (as I tend to be with Panda Corys, that like their water cooler than average) then that period increases accordingly. In the case of my Panda Fun Palace™, if ever I get a White Spot outbreak in there, medication will need to be continued for up to 21 days from the first conclusively identified signs of disease. This gives you an idea of the kind of treatment régime that is needed with Ich.

However, there is a possibility that in the case of your Bettas, another disease, namely Freshwater Velvet, is also causing havoc. I've already covered this in another post for ClownyGirl and her recent woes, but suffice it to say that [1] most standard Ich meds (except for copper based ones) won't treat Velvet [2] Protozin, on the other hand, will also kill Velvet and a range of other protozoan diseases, which is another reason why I recommend it [3] again, you could be looking at a 21 day treatment régime if Velvet is loose among your fishes.

Note: Protozin will deal with Ich AND Velvet. If you've been unfortunate and gotten the two together in the one aquarium, then Protozin will treat both, but only stress the fish with one lot of medication.

Here is the info page for Protozin.

Hope this helps!


Last edited by Calilasseia at 26-Nov-2005 00:30

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002