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I know I've been posting up a storm about my 55 gallon lately, but since that project is temporarily stalled, I need to learn more about why my old Columbian Tetras are getting sick.
Most of them are 5 or 6 years old. The rest are almost 2 years old. Within the past few months I have had to put three under: two due to loss of buoyancy, one to what I think I've learned is called "wasting disease". Four more are losing buoyancy, two have black patches on their bodies, and one more is wasting away.
I don't know what to do. This is my first experience with real illness in my aquarium. I know that most of the Tetras are old, but is it normal for them to be meeting their end in this way? I do weekly water changes of around 20%, dose with Cycle weekly, use Aqua Plus to condition water, and test the water once per week. Water parameters are normal, and have been. My LFS recommended that I treat with Pimafix and Melafix. I did, and saw no changes. I waited some time, then treated by way of medicated food, saw no changes.
Is there anything else that I can do? These fish are split between a 20 gal and a ten gal, with sick fish in both. Should I put all sick fish in one aquarium? I'm a little nervous about doing a lot of switching around. I have two Clown Loaches in the 20 gal which apprear to not be affected by any of this thus far. I've had them since November, and don't want anything to happen to them.
This situation is pretty depressing for me. Any advice or words of wisdom you'd like to share? Most appreciated!
Kari

If they are getting sick because of the advancing years and the drop in the immune system , it can be a good idea to move them away from healthy fish, as they may be allowing infections to take hold, and bacteria protozoa and fungi to multiply, thus increasing the risks of infection to healthier fish. Even if old age isnt the cause its usually a good idea to quarantine sick fish and treat both them, and the tank they came from. It often only takes a few hours or days for disease transmission to occur, so the segregation can be useful, and if any other fish contract the illness in the absence of the tetras it will give you a sense of the severity of the problem, and really test your theory that the age of tetras may be at fault. It can also give you a chance to medicate fish sensibly according to age and condition.Healthy fish can often take a full on blast of curative meds, and you may with to use lower doses and take a bit more time over the more decrepit fish. Your tetras may have a protozoan infection, the skin patches and the wasting make it highly likely, so treat for parasites. Metronidazole is a good antiprotozoan , and it has some general antibiotic effects too, it can often be the difference between life and death in many "mystery" ailments.

I know it seems a bit mean to badger decrepit fish with tankmoves, but then theres no reason healthy stock should have to suffer increased risk of infection when the others havent got that long to live anyway. Always favour the healthier fish. Survival is about having the best chance possible, and hedging your bets on the most likely fish to survive.Harsh, but thats life.

Loss of buoyancy? Do the fish seem to swim in a head down posision? It could be swim bladder disease.
Older fish are more g to a variety of nasties and yours are pretty much at the end of the line where age is concerned. I agree with longhairedgit, it is better to quarantine the older/sick ones than to loose all your fish.
You may need to treat your sick fish with a broad spectrum antibiotic (Maracyn II). Someone else might however, have a better idea.

Thanks for your helpful suggestions.
Since I have sick fish in both aquariums, how should I tackle this?
For example: If I decide to put all sick fish into the ten gallon tank, should I do anything to the 20 gallon, since sick fish have been in it? Would a hefty water change in the 20 gallon be sufficient?
The 10 gallon may be overstocked if I move all of the sick fish into it, since there seems to be more cause for concern in that tank (as a whole), and I don't want to move any fish out of it, only fish into it from the 20 gallon. Would a temporary overstock work against the treatment? My guess is that during treatment I would have 13 Tetras in the 10 gallon.
Two Tanks: I'm glad that you mentioned Swim Bladder because I have read about it, and don't think that is what is happening to those particular fish. They bob head up, not head down. Any ideas about what could cause that?
Thanks for the med suggestions as well.
I have the morning off, so I will get going on this today.
Thanks!
Kari

Keep using the Melafix and Primafix in your main tanks. Only use the stronger medicine in your quarantine tanks, since they can have an adverse effect on your biological filter.If there is a way, try to put all the sick ones in the ten and keep any that are healthy in the twenty. If you have any snails, keep them in the twenty as well. Some meds can also stain the seal in your tank, so think about that first if you really want to keep using the ten for other fish. I think you will be OK keeping the tetras in the ten since it will only be for a week until you see any improvement. I hope others will have some ideas on this too.

Hi there,
I have some older Buenos Aires Tetras
that are also demonstrating similar health
deterioration.

I have found melafix+pimafix only stretches out
their life for a short time, after which they pass
away anyway.

Remember not to overdose on Melafix and Pimafix.
Dose only 4 times then do a 35% water change before
adding any more. Melafix can be lethal in heavy concentrations.
Good Luck.


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Most swim bladder issues are caused by thermic shock, osmotic issues associated with renal failure and the loss of gaseous exchange or bacterial infection. Melafix may help bacterial causes, but will do so only peripherally. Melafix is more of a contact treatment for primarily external ailments, and it is useful for killing bacteria in the water. Therefore treatments for bacterially caused swim bladder issues will have to be in the form of broad spectrum antibiotics. Such antibiotics often harm beneficial filter bacteria and as such are much better administered in quarantine.

Renal failure and osmotic issues are an overall sign of deteriorating condition, and while curative attempts are viable in younger fish as their symptoms are caused primarily by dietary problems (typically overuse of fatty foods), protozoan, and bacterial infections, it may be impossible to reverse the damage in an elderly fish. But you never know until you try I guess.

I say give it a shot if you can afford it, and treat the tanks the fish were in when they first became sick, just in case infection levels have risen and the otherwise healthy fish are at risk.

I did 50% water changes on both aquariums, removed carbon from filters, then transitioned 4 sick fish from the 20 gallon into the 10 gallon. I'm treating the 10 gallon with Maracide and Maracyn II for five days. In the 20 gallon I'm dosing with Melafix for 4 days.

We'll see what happens.........
I feel much better now that the sick fish are isolated in another aquarium. I suppose that was the most important thing to do. I'll keep you posted on the progress.

Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge and advice. I'm learning something new every day!

Kari

I need to ask for advice once again....

I worked on my aquariums this morning, as I posted above. I was around for a bit of the day and checked on the fish quite a few times. All looked fine.

I had to get some things done, so I didn't check again for several hours. Checked tonight and one fish had died, others are gasping for air at the surface. This is in the 20 gallon with the healthy fish, so I am pretty upset.

Water test results were normal on everything except the Nitrates, which are very high. The colors references on my test kit (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals) are very hard to distinguish, but my best guess is that it's 40-60ppm. My tap water has zero Nirtates. Was this caused by a massive water change, and taking the carbon out of the filter at the same time?

I put a new carbon filter in behind the old one (which I had removed the carbon from). Will putting in the carbon filter help the Nitrates go down, or do I need to do another water change (if so, how much?)?

Thanks everyone-
Kari

Lost another fish not long after my last post. It looked very disoriented, then died suddenly. I did a 25% water change, and then tested Nitrate levels again. They look to now be around 20ppm. One fish is still hanging out at the surface, but I guess I prefer just one, as opposed to nearly all of them (as it was before the water change). The Clown Loaches seem unaffected, as usual.
Nothing more that I can do tonight, except get some much needed rest. I hope that I see continued improvement in the morning.
Any thoughts about what happened in my 20 gallon today?

Kari

Carbon filters dont decrease nitrate, they are for general toxin absorbtion , and they actually increase the the amount of nitrate produced in the tank as they too can support bacterial growth like regular filter sponges do. If the nitrates are getting up to 60ppm it might be that theres waste food in the tank, or that the cleaning regime needs to be a little more frequent. Its advisable to keep it under 40ppm when you can although 60 ppm isnt a cardinal sin. Its usually a good idea to give the tank a clean before the meds go in, or you get a bacterial war and oxygen levels can drop severely. It might be that your tank has had an unfavourable bacterial reaction to the meds.Keep doing lots of small water changes to get the nitrate down, but dont overdo it with big changes now, as the filter might be compromised from the meds.Nitrate will also go up as harmful bacteria are killed and release proteins into the water, which the filter bacteria have to process.

Keep the water and the substrate nice and clean, oxygenate well, and hopefully no more issues like this. Make sure you have worked out the medication amount correctly for the tanksize, taking into account the water volume taken up by gravel, plants etc. A lot of people overdo the dosage without meaning to because they forget the stuff in the tank might have displaced several gallons of water.

Woke up this morning to find two more dead fish in the 20 gallon aquarium. That's now 4 fish dead in 12 hours.

These are the results of this morning's water test:
ph: 7.2
ammonia: 0 ppm
nitrate: 20 ppm
nitrite: .25ppm

The fish are no longer hanging out at the surface for air. They were not active at all during feeding this morning, and are usually very active. Colors look good, swimming looks normal, though reacted more than usual to the lamp being switched on.

I was thinking that I might have destroyed bacteria colonies with the massive water change yesterday morning, but wouldn't I have seen an ammonia reading if that was the case?
Could it be that I caused this by changing too many things at one time? Massive water change + removing carbon from filter + adding Melafix?
Should I do another water change? I did one last night at around 9:30pm. Should I wait and keep an eye on things?

Your imput is most appreciated. Thanks-

Kari

I was typing up my last post while you were posting yours, longhairedgit. Thanks for the advice.

The gravel wasn't dirty when I did the gravel vac, and I do them on a weekly basis. I'm not overfeeding either, and followed the dosing instructions carefully for the Melafix. I have less than 2 inches of gravel in that aquarium. Besides that there is only one small cave for the Loaches....not much to take up any water volume.
I'm quite certain that the high nitrates couldn't have been from a dirty tank, since it wasn't dirty. I did the 50% water change to eliminate traces that may have been in there from the sick fish that I moved to the other aquarium, and not to clean it up.

Any ideas about the nitrite reading I got this morning?

Obviously there is something going on with my water quality, but is there a chance that there was just too much happening in the aquarium yesterday, stressing out the fish (many being very, very old), and this, in part, caused the deaths? Or is it only the water quality that caused this?

Thanks-

Kari

Well, I just inadvertently discovered what happened yesterday that caused this problem in my aquarium, though I'm a little too disappointed and embarrassed to mention it now, since it was completely my fault.
The aquarium is now stabilized, and the fish are looking more normal. Once they regain their appetite, I'll be certain that all is well again.

Kari

When fish swim at the surface gasping for air, it means that the oxygen levels in the water are low. You have to be careful with melafix because it can decrease the oxygen in your tank water, but I don't see how the melafix would have caused the increase in nitrates you mention.
I am glad you found out what was wrong and was able to correct the problem before loosing any more fish.

Go on, mention it, theres no embarrassment in admitting an obvious problem. I once had a thermometer break and a thermostat freak out at the same time. I sat there wondering why the fish were getting bloated and sluggish, tested the water quality, and was desperately reviewing my knowledge of diseases for several days before I touched the water, which unsurprisingly enough, was far too warm. I felt like spending the whole week beating myself over the head with a brick for that one.

Ok, I'll break my silence, but am still pretty upset with myself. I accidently dosed twice the amount of Melafix needed. When I used it previously, I used a teaspoon from my kitchen, so I wouldn't have to deal with the messy cap, etc.; but decided to use the cap that time, not seeing that there were two different measurement levels in it. It was a classic example of getting involved in a project for too many hours, and then messing up at the end, due to being rushed to get to other things needing to be done.
I did lose four of my healthy Tetras, which was very upsetting, but my Loaches are just fine, thankfully!

Live and learn, right? I'll never make that mistake again.

Kari

Also, I dosed with Maracide and Maracyn II (in the 10 gallon) for the past 5 days, as directed, and have not seen any real improvement in the fish. I hoped that I would see something positive, but I think these fish are just too old to be helped. It's very depressing to look at that tank every day, I tell you.
Today I'll do the water change, then will do a dosing of Melafix.
There are three fish who are bobbing upright, and I think I should take care of them today, since I can't watch them struggle any longer. I hate this part....

Kari

yeah it sucks, but kudos for fessing up.Hopefully all the remaining fish will be spared the same fate as the oldies.

Good luck with all of them .

Today will be the last dose of Melafix, then a water change and new filter media tomorrow. Two fish had to be put down before the Melafix dosing began, and two more are on the same path (bobbing head up). Two have black patches, which I have assumed are wounds (from rubbing against decor that is no longer in the aquarium) that I hope will heal given time, and one has a gills issue (opened up more than normal). They have been eating and swimming normally. What should I do long-term for these fish?

The fish in the 20 gallon are doing wonderfully, and the 55 gallon should be ready for them soon.