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In my 56 gallon tank, I keep cichlids, convicts, jewels, salvinis all 3 breeding and a pair of striped raphael catfish.

I saw this really gorgeous 5 inch firemouth and brought him home, he came from a very dirty tank and had fine white dust all over him. He died within 30 hours, and all my fish started getting sick. I didnt know what to do, so I dosed the tank with Rid all Anti-ich. Meanwhile, after research and inputs from folks at FP, I realised that the fish had velvet and a sure cure is something with Copper sulphate in it.

I went back to the LFS, and got myself Copper Cure from Aquamedi. The salvinis were swimming wierd, but so were the other fish. I dosed the tank. Everything looked okay for the whole day.

I woke up the next morning, and the male salvini had his skin peeled off in parts and was dead. The female was showing signs of fatigue, was white in colour and her skin was peeling/flaking off. She died the next morning.

I dont know what my salvinis died off. The other fish have almost recovered and are doing fine.

Also, the copper med says to change water after 5 days, tomorrow is day 5. Should I change water and then add some more medicine to be safe. The female convict has still got some dust on her body.

Please help!!!



Last edited by ClownyGirl at 21-Nov-2005 12:31

Sounds like Flexibacter columnaris, this is an extremely aggressive bacterial infection, usually mistaken for fungal complaints , the cure is multilayered, it requires aquarium salt, copper treatment and a good broad spectrum antibiotic, and dont hang around either, it usually kills all fish within two weeks or less from the first visible symptoms.Sometimes its a matter of mere hours. Dont assume because the others exhibit no symptoms that they havent contracted the bacteria or that they wont. It is extremely likely that they will.The only way you will beat this infection is to react with at least equal vigour.Antibiotics take 24-48 hours to work, so to save any of the fish you will have to move it, move it, move it . Upping the temperature only increases the speed of the bacterias growth and breeding in this case, DONT change the temps.

It is one of the MOST infectious fish diseases known, so treat absolutely all of your fish, and sterilise anything to do with the tank , and be THOROUGH. Clean everything, and then clean them again. If they survive id be tempted to treat them again in two weeks time, just to be sure.

Dont hang around or you will lose absolutely every fish you have, quarantine is irrelevant at this point.

I suppose its possible that it could be a Chilodonella
infection, but since that needs the same treatment anyway might as well assume the worst and get on with the cures asap.

For future reference, quarantine all your fish.

Good luck. Youre gonna need it.

I dont usually nag people about the treatment so much , but this one is serious, as in SERIOUS. Think bubonic plague for fish and you wont be far off.



Last edited by longhairedgit at 21-Nov-2005 22:02

Thanks LongHaired! I have already done the following and am due for a water change tomorrow.

1. Methyl blue full dose
2. Salt about 20 large tablespoons in my 56 gallon tank.
3. Copper cure full dose.
4. The only thing left to do is add anti-biotics to the tank, I can get some and add it immediately.

Hubby suspects the copper may have killed the salvinis, but I was under the impression that copper poisons, it does not peel/flake your skin.

What do you suggest I do after the water change?

It would have to be a very extreme reaction for copper to cause peeling, its highly unlikely, but if youre gonna use antibiotics anyway, you can really cut down on the amount of copper youre using.. The copper , the salt, and the methyl blue will kill much of the ambient bacteria, but the antibiotic is the true systemic that will be the one to save the fish.

After the water change to reduce the levels of old methyl blue, salt, and copper meds after a week or so, I would continue to use antibiotic for another week, then give any remaining fish a week or two with no meds , perhaps even run carbon during that time . Then give them a final week on antibiotic ( obviously having stopped the carbon) , Then id probably do a 40% water change and run carbon again.I might even commit to a weekly 20-30 % water change performed weekly for several months after.I know that balancing ph and kh for cichlids is difficult when you do that, but its gotta be worth the risk. Keep checking the water quality with a test kit when you do the changes , and use buffers accordingly.

Since its a heavy med load for fish to take , after the meds are over id probably use some stress coat or similar to help them settle down again.

Its gonna be a nasty 3 weeks, fingers crossed for you.

ps make sure you have gravel cleaned well before adding meds, it stops a lot of adverse bacterial reactions to meds, particularly the antibiotics.Since youll need to be doing regular water changes after the meds have done their thing its a good time to get the gravel really clean.



Think of the principles of it all like this in steps.

1) treat the water and the animals asap.
2) get rid of some of the water and give the fish's renal system a break for a week.
3) repeat treatment for a week to catch the breeding cycle of the bacteria.
4) rest the fish again, and get rid of the last of the original water, ( or at least dilute it to the point its almost irrelevant)
5) Aid recovery of the fish chemically.Do what you can to minimise the stress they have suffered.
6 ) run a scrupulously clean tank with really regular water changes for several months to avoid reinfestations, and straight back in there with antibiotic should a reinfection occur.

general tip- feed lightly and regularly, you dont want waste materials contributing to the chemical and bacterial hell thats already in the tank, and dont overfeed as this will put stress on the fish liver and kidneys , which will be very busy reacting to the meds.

lot of work aint it!

Best of luck.



Last edited by longhairedgit at 22-Nov-2005 11:51

I knew you'd come back with a longer reply with all the required steps for me. I put off the water change for one more day, because I didn't want to mix equipment from one tank with another. I am doing a water change first thing tomorrow and adding some anti-biotic.

Thanks a ton!!!
Clowny.

Mixing equpment is a good way to pass the bacteria on. Make sure anything you use with the tank is well cleaned, a soak in 5% bleach solution for an hour and some thorough rinsing and drying pretty much kills all bacteria.

Bleach is lethal to fish obviously so the rinsing and drying is pretty important. If unsure that the bleach has gone do it again!

Hmm.. good idea. I do have a wavemaker from the existing tank that I have removed and kept to dry outside (not in the sun). Obviously, since it was not in the tank during treatment, it may still carry some of the bacteria. This is a sponge, and a rotator wheel. Should I do the bleach thing with it, or is it safe to put it back in the existing tank???

Id ditch the sponge and buy a new one and bleach the remaining plastic parts. Dehydration is a good way of killing bacteria, but in this case I think ditching untreated porous materials like sponge that will absorb atmospheric moisture and possibly retain some bacteria may be a good idea. Sponges can be hell to get bleach out of too.

Theres no rush to put it back anyway, the cichlids wont miss it for a few weeks as long as the filter provides reasonable flow.Its a nice thing to have , but not really essential.



Last edited by longhairedgit at 23-Nov-2005 13:14

Your right! Anyway, this is not the sponge from inside the filter, but an attachment wheel that I connect to the nozzle, so no, they are not missing it yet. It was more to remove the film of oil that forms on the surface and some aeration. I am leaving it out for now, until I am sure it wont cause any harm.

Just answered in this other thread of yours Clownygirl. You might find my info useful for the future regarding the velvet that struck your fish and led to the above woes.

Hope this helps


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

If it is velvet as Cal suggests her treatment advice is solid as always ( certainly fish are rarely attacked by one disease at a time and compound issues where bacteria work together to kill the fish are more common than most people realise.), but its the speed of the infection that worries me now. Treatment is similar though, so if it is flexibacter or the more traditional velvet,or even a combination of the two, youll nail it all the same. Velvet rarely kills fish in just a few hours as we see here, although the other symptoms are identical.

Last edited by longhairedgit at 24-Nov-2005 11:30

The copper medicine I put into the tank is by Aquamedi and is supposed to work against the Oodinium parasite. And the fish are better and breeding I am now praying that I dont see a recurrence of the same. I have decided to give the meds a rest for 2 weeks and watch.

Excellent news, keep us posted.

No new issues. The females have laid eggs and both the males (Jewel and convict) are protecting their territory fiercely. The female convict has had a growth spurt, she is now fatter and bigger. The others have gained the lost wieght back.

I bought two large salvinis to replace my original ones, and they are in quarantine along with a large Texas cichlid and two small firemouths. So far, the new fish are not showing any signs of disease

Hubby is planning for a bigger tank for when the cichlids get too big for this one [img src='/images/forums/halo.gif' border=0]