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Two months ago I got a Red Flame Gourami who until 2 days ago was perfectly healthy. I have one other Male dwarf in the tank but this sick one is the dominent one and I have never seen any other fish bother it in any way. So it's not stress or fighting. Yesterday a.m. he was perfectly fine and ate breakfast when I came home at nite to feed again, I found him spinning around and around like a puppy chasing his tail. He would stop long enough to come to the top to eat though.

Water tests were good and normal as always.
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates >10

I've quarantined him. Anybody have any idea what this may be? Someone told me of something called "whirling disease" and one of the symptoms is a deformed spine. He does have this when I look at him from the top his spine looks crooked from side to side. But I thought this was normal.

Anyone out there ever seen this before? I'm really worried, I'd like to a least know what and how if at all I can treat this.

120 GAL. Community Freshwater (2 huge mated angles, 2 German rams, Red tail shark, 2 Pearl Grammies, 3 Bushynose Plecos, Swordtails

110 Gal. (3 Koi Angles, 3 black marble viel tail Angles) 20 Neon tetras, 1 red tail shark, 3 clown loaches, Platys

Hiya Bar-B,
certainly sounds like either some type of
internal infection, or whirling disease.
A good drug to try would be Triple Sulfa.
Keep the fish warm (78-80F should do),
and preferably in a quiet location.
Follow the instructions on the Triple Sulfa.
If it can be cured, this probably will work.
LonghairedGit may also have some suggestions,
maybe he will post, or you could IM him.
He knows quite a bit about whirling disease.
Good Luck!

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I did respond in pm, but heres more or less (you know me , always editing ) what I wrote for information purposes . I appreciate for a lot of people this is a bit of a "mystery" ailment, so hopefully this will give folks a bit more to go on.

Whirling disease is caused my myxospora cerebralis parasites that infect the brain , spine and nervous system. Once infected fish usually die unless injected very early on with furazolidone or metronidazole, both of which will kill the adult parasites. The damage done by the parasites is permanent and irreversible so any fish with severe symptoms needs to be euthanised.The nervous system once so severely damaged never recovers, and I would imagine its too late to save this particular gourami.The symptoms you describe sound very much like myxospora or indeed mycobacterium, both of which can cause spinning, breathing difficulties, partial paralysis and kinking of the spine. The treatments are very similar, and unfortunately so is the prognosis.

The two diseases need handling differently to prevent the spread however. Mycobacterium can be treated in its juvenile stages by the addition of metronidazole to tankwater , so it isnt that hard to kill, and the life cycle is direct,which is bad news,since badly affected fish should really be euthanised, and obviously any infected fish MUST be seperated from cagemates, and the tank might need cleaning to extreme standards, possibly requiring a complete stripdown, although month long quarantines and heavy doses of metro will snuff it out eventually.

Myxospora is harder to eradicate. The parasite itself is usually ingested incidentally from tubifex worms, but its also possible that they may be picked up as cysts or TAM's by planaria , bloodworm and some shrimp.The fish eat them , and the cycle of parisitation continues within the fish, with something like an 85% death rate.A dead fish will be loaded with thousands of TAMS and its corpse presents a massive risk to scavenging fish, or indeed any fish that might imbibe in a fallen cagemate. The TAMS themselves are unfortunately almost indestructible in medication terms, as they cannot easily be killed by toxins that will not kill the fish themselves. They are vulnerable however to ultraviolet, and so uv filters/cleaners are your only real defence against any TAMS in your tank. Failing that , all you can do is euthanise the fish or have them injected with furazolidone, then clean the tank out with either, chlorine, ammonia, or bleach and get rid of ANY porous materials, plants , substrates,filter media, or indeed anything you cannot bleach to an absolute level of cleanliness.Obviously, unless you have another tank ready to go, youll have to put your sick fish through a cycle, so survival odds arent too good.

Bearing all this in mind, with either disease, you should really consider having a parasitology report done by your vet on the corpse of your fish. I appreciate it is expensive , but if it is either of these two infections you NEED TO KNOW. Mycobacterium can make humans seriously ill, and myxospora has severe implications as a pandemic disease of fish. You also dont want to have to get radical with the euthansia of your fish without adequate cause. All salmonids are definately vulnerable ,and a few scavenging fish have limited resistance, but so far in testing, all species deliberately infected with over 1000 TAMS started to show symptoms.That in itself shows that extreme cleanliness might help limit the spread, and uv sterilisers should help lower infestation levels, but as stated there is no real cure except by injection in the very early stages. Getting rid of an outbreak in a tank will therefore be very , very , difficult, with your average home keeper unable to guarantee their tanks will ever be free of it without a complete stripdown.It does show though, that it isnt impossible.

A quick note on fish corpses thought to have died from myxospora : all fish must be burned and not flushed or binned. As stated before, the cysts of myxospora are almost indestructible, and they survive months in little moisture, and there is a huge risk of infecting local watercourses. Huge numbers of trout farms are already affected in the US, and it kills thousands of fish. Don't let it spread, there is basically no effective cure that can be implemented in a wild situation.Even trout farms ( a multi-million dollar business) have had to come to the conclusion that there is no effective treatment, and are having to avoid the use of tubifex, and are beginning to implement limited uv irradiation programmes, the cumulative research that has been analysed so far indicates that the only real solution is selective breeding to create more resistant strains of fish.Its also proven that anglers have spread the disease in the wild by use of infected bait fish and dirty equipment, thats how little excuse this disease needs to spread. Basically its microscopic, can get on your hands and feet, and your tank equipment, so take personal hygeine seriously too.Youll have to use some fairly serious handwash disinfectant or alcohol, or something with ph as far off the chart as you can cope with. Me, id probably wash my hands in bleach , although id appreciate you may not wish to do that..

Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news, but if it is either of these two diseases, its better to be prepared.Either of these diseases can wipe out an entire fish collection in a few months when parasite levels become high.

Whatever the infection is, good luck!

So basically treat with metronidazole or furazolidone, and definately keep the fish in QT until hes well again, (possibly up to two months or so, until all possibility of reinfection has reasonably passed)and yes your other fish might well be at risk.Both are difficult diseases to confirm without pathology reports, the treatment isnt cheap, and the consequences serious and survival rates are not good. Its one of those things that suck liberally,beyond that theres not much advice to give. You'll probably need vetinary support with this one, its a bit beyond home remedies and the drugs will be licensed , and the administration dead tricky.

Failing that give it a permanent QT and see if it makes it, but the chances are about 85/15 that it wont. Antibiotic support, melafix etc wont make the slightest difference.Sorry to be the offerer of hard solutions, but if badly infected now, and possibly permanently crippled it may be better to knock it on the head, and save further suffering.