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I just got 2 Blue Rams 6 days ago, one male and one that I think is a female. In the last 3 days I have noticed that the males left eye is much bigger than the right one, it is bulging. I don't know diseases well but I thought it could be popeye. The parameters are as follows:

0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
20 Nitrate
Temp is 82 degrees
Other tank mates: 1 BN, 1 ADF and up until yesterday 1 Male Betta

I removed the Betta yesterday because he had started to flare and chase the Rams. I'm sure this had to have been stressing the Ram. He has been eating good though, he's getting regular tropical flakes, cichlid flakes, shrimp pellets, and some color enhancing pellets. When his eye was fine he would chase the other Ram on occasion, now he is the one running away. Any help would be appreciated.

Well at 20 ppm popeye isnt going to be nitrate related, so your left with bacteria as the primary cause with fungi a runner up. Since youve mixed south american and asian species most likely without quarantine, its possible that the stress and the cross continental inhabitants has led to a spot of infection from a common bacteria, but in a strain the ram isnt used to combatting, and he will need some medication until he has a chance to aquire an immunity.

Depending on how severe you think the infection is you can start out with a melafix/pimafix compination for a couple of weeks and see if the eye responds, if it doesnt , then turn to meds like furan , oxytetracycline,kanymycin etc for a more thorough course of treatment away from the main tank . Obviously is the eye is more than twice its normal size and is whitening badly , id class that severe and you'd need to wade in with the heavier meds. In any eventuality a spot of pimafix and melafix in the main tank will be beneficial to knock bacterial levels down, so a fish once quarantined, treated and recovered can return to a tank relatively free of infection. Should the fish show any symptoms that indicate a problem distinctly fungal origin, change tack, run carbon for 24 hours, do a 50% water change and opt for a med containing malachite green, or select a suphur based treatment like triple sulfa. They are usually readily available in your LFS. Again the frog must not be exposed to that.

For any of these meds its probably better to remove the ADF, as the meds will be too strong for him, especially the use of furan, or any of the organic dyes should be avoided for use with an adf. Even melafix and pimafix can annoy them, often causing problems with the frogs method of pharangeal inspiration, meaning that it will have to keep going to the top of the water to gulp air far more often. A frog should not be exposed to formaldehyde based meds, or copper and methylene blue especially, the contact can be lethal to them.

Should the frog turn out to be a carrier of disease more appropriate treatments would be along the lines of a few days with a dilute amount of enrofloaxazin in a container.

Amphibians and fish together in captivity, especially under times of treatment and disease can be quite difficult to manage, and account must be taken of the different toxicities they can live with, and the osmotic tissue and circulatory barriers within their bodies are important.

Should any fish's bellies swell or the frogs legs and extremities start to redden get back to us immediately. If aeromonas is in the mix, the treatment regimes for fish and frogs need to be seperate and very specific for them to survive, and reinfestation between the groups has to be avoided.Treatment times for frogs with aeromonas based "red-leg" can be very lengthy, often several months for a successful save. Plus a weak frog should never be exposed to fish who will more often than not, take immediate advantage of infirmity and take to attacking it.

Basically try mela and pima for now, move the frog, and see how it goes for a week, then let us know how things go.


Rams also hate high ph long term, do you know your ph? It could be a contributing factor. BTW blackwater extracts and peaty filtration media can be very useful for a whole range of tetras and sa river cichlids like rams, often the hormones within boost their immune systems , and after the infections are over and any carbon use has finished you could consider running your tank with at least partial blackwater conditions. The bettas, the rams and the frog will all take such conditions with grace, and may well all benefit .

Good luck!

Sorry I forgot the PH, it's between 7.2-7.6, I have trouble with the colors so I don't know exactly what it is. About using peat moss or blackwater conditioners, how should I do this? I know you put it in the filter media, but will it cause the PH to swing to rapidly? I'll get him some meds as soon as possible. Should I raise the temp of the tank? It's at 82 right now. The frog, Ram, and BN are all still fine, so it's just the male Ram. If anything changes I'll get back to you. Thanks for wishing my Ram luck.

I wouldnt take the tank temps up beyond 84f, it will cause oxygen saturation problems and the bettas and the frog wont like it any higher than that, even though some blue rams can take it as high as 88f in some parts of their range. 82f is plenty high enough for healing.

As for blackwater attempts, you only need very little, often only a quarter of the amount recommended by your average manufacturer of peaty medias and blackwater extracts. In your case the idea is more about providing a few trace elements and making the water a little more acid than it is, rather than going for a full blackwater effect complete with tea -coloured water, so just start little by little.

The Betta is no longer in the tank with the Rams, he is in his own 1 gallon tank. I'll be moving the frog to either the 1 gallon or the newly cycled 55 in a day or two, so I can treat the tank accordingly. I have a HOB filter and an airstone, so I don't think the oxygen is a problem, but I think the temp is fine where it is. I'll get some peat or blackwater conditioner for the PH and trace elements soon. The Ram is now hiding in a waterfall ornament that I have, nothing seems to be wrong with the BN, ADF, or other Ram, so that is good news. I'll pick up some meds that you suggested and I'll keep you posted.

Just for reference I should clarify what I meant about the oxygen being related to temperature , and while I know its not a problem now, you were asking about whether to raise it or not. Water holds more oxygen the cooler its is, at certain temperatures the level of oxygen water can hold , no matter how much you try to oxygenate it, changes. 84f is actually a threshold point where water holds around 30% less oxygen than when it is slightly below that, so taking it as high as 84f plus can be counterproductive as a good oxygen supply is essential for fish metabolism to be maintained, and for the immune system and cellular reproduction to happen as efficiently as possible.So its not that lack of oxygen is a problem now, its just that if you raised the temps much higher it could start to become a problem.

For fish that live in waters around the seventies, there is benefit in raising temps to the low 80's, but for a fish that already lives in the low 80's there not a lot of point in raising temps any further because the oxygen drops therefore negating any advantage to the metabolism of the fish that might be encouraged by heat.

Thanks for clarifying that. There is no still no change in the Ram's condition, I'll be getting him some pimafix/melafix today. I'll keep you updated.

The Ram now has what appears to be fungus around his eye. I got the Melafix and have started treatment on the tank. I removed the carbon from the filter and also removed the frog. He is no longer hiding in the cave, he's around the surface of the water. The temp is at 80-82 still and the nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia are the same. I'll let you know if his condition changes.

Melafix is for bacterial infections, pimafix is primarily for fungal infections. If it is indeed fungus, then pimafix will be more effective, and treatments containing malachite green more effective still.

I'll see how he responds to the Melafix first, if it doesn't seem to help I'll try to find some Pimafix.

I am sad to say that the Ram passed during the night. Everyone else in the tank is fine though. So I have some questions now about the tank. Should I do a WC to remove some of the Melafix or not? Also, how long should I wait before moving the frog or other fish into the tank? Thanks for everyones help during this thread.

Thats a shame, from infection to death, that really was quite fast. To help reduce infection I would let the treatments run for a couple of days more , perhaps even use a one-off shot of malachite green, then do much as the instructions recommend, and do the water changes or run carbon, then introduce the other animals back about a day after the water changes and carbon have been used.

Sorry for the loss

Thanks LHG, it did happen pretty fast. I had him for one week, he showed the symptoms on day 4 and died 3 days later. The female looks good and so does the BN. I'll look for another male for her eventually, I might wait awhile before I get any more. Thanks for all the help, at least it gave the Ram a fighting chance. I'll probably focus on stocking the 55 for awhile now.