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Well, just when I thought it couldnt get much worse with my worm troubles, my female Angelfish Sneaky Pete has become ill with something swim bladder related.
She seems a little swollen in the swimbladder region, and is having difficulties swimming up right.
She is currently at this moment resting sideways and slightly upside down at the top. It is very hard for her to remain upright. I began treatment with Maracyn (minocycline) under the assumption this is likely a bacterial infection caused on its own, or by an injury?
She shows no other symptoms but the swelling on her abdomen, and the inability to right herself. She does seem to be able to be up right for longer periods of time, but is getting more tired quicker.
I have treated for 3 days now with Maracyn, and going to dose 4th treatment tonight. It says 5 doses, water change, then repeat if necessary.
If not, I also have Furan, and Jungle Brands Bacterial clear which has Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone.
The maracyn treats gram positive bacteria and the furan treats gram negative bacteria.
Should I dose one full round of maracyn then swap to one of the others to achieve results? Or should I stick with the Maracyn for another full round of treatment.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
She is in a 25g tank with her mate Sid Vicious, some corys, 3 ottos, and a stone lapping barb. Water changes have been up to this point once a week, and filtration is by an aquaclear mini and a sponge filter rated for 50g.
Temp is 78F. Ammonia-0 Nitrites -0, Nitrates- 15ppm
Ph is 7.6 and hardness is about 280ppm gh.
Thanks.
I can post pictures if necessary, but i suspect everyone has seen a swim bladder affected fish.
She is also full of eggs.
I have fed veggie flakes purely now for 3 days in case of constipation, and offered a pea - she wont take the pea but has been eating the veggie flake.
She has been pooping today.
Thanks anyone who responds in advance.
Sorry for the long winded post.
-Koran.



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Anyone? She seems to be fading fast. Shes now just
laying on the water top breathing slowly, and only occassionally tries to swim.
Is there anyone who has any advice?
I did dose 5 of the maracyn 2, and now doing big water change today.
I do not want to lose this fish. She is mine and my boyfriends real Pet fish.


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I dug out my fish disease book to see if I could find anything helpful. From what I know of the symptoms, the book suggested a bacterial invasion of some sort. Maracyn 2 is supposed to be a good antibacterial treatment, I couldn't think of anything else that might be helpful in this situation. I'm not very good with meds, but I figure that Maracyn 2 is as good as anything when the exact cause of a bacterial illness is unknown. I really hate to break it, but most of the time fish who experience the same symptoms as yours don't make it. Hopefully the water change will put some new life in your critter, you're very attached to it.

This isn't the tank with the worms in it? That would be a nasty double jeopardy.

Sorry, that's the best I can do. Hopefully rooting for your fish will help it.

Last edited by sirbooks at 27-Dec-2005 19:40

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Nope, this is a different tank.
She is currently resting right side up at the top of the tank, and looking around.
I think I will take the water down as much as possible without stressing her out.
Should I wait a day and run some carbon on the tank before repeating treatment?
Thanks Sirbooks.


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Unless someone else can suggest better, I think it would be okay to go ahead and continue treating. Though it is true that overmedication can kill fish, you're using just one med, and doing a water change in between treatments. I don't think your angel would be overpowered.

Does your angelfish seem to be able to hold itself upright much of the time?

Last edited by sirbooks at 27-Dec-2005 21:16

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Hi Sirbooks,
I did a large water change last night, about 60%.
That really seemed to perk her up a bit.
When she is moving, she is upright most of the time.
When she stops, she goes tail up, which seems to really irritate her, so she instead goes to the top now and rests on her side. Her eyes are clear and she seems very aware.
I went ahead and started another round of the Maracyn 2.
The swelling is on her side, just behind her normal rounded "full of eggs" belly. I assume this is where the swim bladder is. It seems less swollen today then yesterday, and when she does swim round the tank, it seems a little easier for her.
Last night she was hungry, and did come for food and ate several large flakes of regular staple food, and a little bit of the 8 veggie flake. I offered a pea again, she wasnt interested.
I am wondering if an epsom salt dip may help, or if that would just stress her out more. I could probably lift her out by hand much easier than by net, she is very friendly and allows me to pet her and often rests with her belly on my wrist when I do water changes. I am hesitant to move her for a dip though, as Im worried more stress would be more harmful.

On doing some reading I found several causes for the problem she has. One is a virus, which usually affects several fish in the tank very close to each other. My other Angel is unaffected. He is keeping very close watch on his mate. So I have ruled out a Virus.

Another cause is Spironucleus Bacteria - but having had one young angel several years ago that had this, this doesnt look the same. She doesnt "Whirl and wobble like drunk"

That leaves a bacterial infection of the kidneys, liver, or swimbladder itself. I could find recommendations most often of Triple Sulfa or Quinine Sulfate for treatment.

The only other cause I havent ruled out is Injury to the swimbladder itself. There is nothing sharp in the tank, but there is a large statue that could cause damage if she collided with it. There are no visible signs of an injury though. I dont understand what caused this, as just one night before she was fine, was cleaning a leaf to prepare to lay eggs. I woke up the next day to an upside down fish, and no eggs!
I wonder if her holding eggs so long this time (its probably been a month or maybe a little more) has caused this.

Well im not giving up on her without a fight!
If this second round of Maracyn2 doesnt show any improvement, then I will go for the Triple Sulfa.
On the box the Maracyn 2 says "repeat full treatment ONCE only".


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That's great that the water change seemed to help your angel. Water changes are underrated, and can be very helpful in improving the health of sick fish.

I also would not try the dip. I believe they are recommended mainly for parasites (which usually can't resist osmotic pressure differences as well as fish), and it doesn't seem like your fish has a problem with them. Angelfish aren't always very hardy, so the additional stress of a salt dip could worsen your female's condition.

If eggs were the problem, it seems likely that there would be more cases of this happening to angels. Can't angels just absorb eggs? I wouldn't think that they would allow themselves to bloat on their gametes to the point where it harms them.

That's great that your angel seems to be doing better. Hopefully it will continue to recover, even if we're not exactly sure what the problem is.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Well, today is day 7 of the total 10 day treatment of Maracyn.
I am still trying to remain optimistic, but today not only is she more swollen again in the swim bladder region,
but seems to be having even more difficulty just swimming upright. She keeps going tail up and snout down.
I contacted a vetrinarian, and he said that it may be possible that the swim bladder will heal on its own, or with the aid of medication, but this doesnt necessarily mean the fish will ever swim upright again.
He said that total healing of a ruptured swimbladder should expect to heal within about 3-4 weeks time, at which point either the fish will be able to swim normally again, or never will. He recommended after this to try the Furan in case of a gram negative bacterial infection, but said to not get too hopeful as it is unlike the fish will ever recover true stability.

Though she is an incredibly strong willed fish and is truly trying her best, she seems to be getting slowly weaker every day.
I guess at this point all I can do is pray and hope for the best.
She has provided me with a gorgeous daughter fish.
It is hard to watch her as her mate is being very watchful, picking snails off her and keeping her clean.
He seems very upset.


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Sheesh, that's really too bad. Hopefully your fish can hang on, it sounds like it's really trying hard. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

My experience of an angel with swim bladder failure was equally disappointing, I post mortemed the fish myself after death, and the bladder had completely burst, the fish had managed to struggle on for 2 months without a functional swim bladder of any kind. Had I known of course , I would have euthanised the fish much earlier, but it is a testament to their personal tenacity that they try to keep living with such a crippling disability for so long, feeding, even fighting and trying to live life as normal. Brave little things.

Thats for sure Longhaired, they are tough fish!
She is definetly hanging in there.
She is taking longer and longer swims now,
and im not sure if its just me, but it seems
she is having an easier time of it than before.
She is still resting on the top a lot.
I have run through an entire 10 days of Maracyn 2.
To top it all off both my hang on the back
filters on this tank have died within a week.
Just another reason why I feel HOB filters are worthless.
One was an aquaclear that lasted just under 2 years.
The other was a cascade that is barely 9 months old.
I have ordered a rena XP-2 for this tank. The sponge filter on it is keeping it nice and clean.
I plan to do a couple of small water changes over the next week, and see how she does. If there is improvement, I will keep on waiting it out to see how she does.
If it worsens or no change after 1 months time, I am probably going to have to bite the bullet and put her down.
I dont know who to feel worse for, the female angel whos having the troubles, or her mate. He is going crazy trying to get her to swim. Nudges her, "kisses" her on the chin, tries to prop her up against his side. Its so heartwarming and yet utterly saddening to watch.
I have no idea how he will handle losing her.
If she doesnt make it, I am going to move him into my big tank with his daughter, so he will have some company.
Then I will use the 25g as a tetra tank or something.
Its a day I dread.



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...or bite the bullet and go with an eheim external,preferably a large thermofilter. You'll never look back.I know folks eyes always boggle when they see the price, but how can you knock a filter that hardly ever goes wrong and the temperature stays totally consistant?

Since the new pros with prefilters are out a lot of the older , bigger thermos are going for £100 or less, and since eheim carry parts for decades its a good time to get a cheap top-notch filter.

I decided to go with Rena XP-2 for not only the low price,
but the quality of the filter.
After 9 hours of trying to get the darned eheim
filter started (curses Eheim again), I want to stick with filters with
auto prime features, and I cant afford one of those
quality of eheims!
I am impressed with my 2217, but dont think I would
ever go with another eheim non-auto-prime.
And right now they are simply out of budget.
My 2217 I got on Ebay for the low price of $135 including shipping brand new with extra filter media.
That was about half the retail price. Wouldnt have got it otherwise.


I am still unsure of how shes doing.
She is swimming better overall, but still spends most
of the day laying on her side on the water surface.
Her swimbladder area swelling is starting to decrease now,
so I think now only time will tell.

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How is the angelfish doing now?

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Hi Sirbooks,
she is still the same pretty much.
Seems to be adapting and learning again how
to swim upright, but I still am not seeing
much improvement.
I am pretty much dreading the day of putting her down,
but being as it has been about 3 weeks now,
I really dont see it getting better.
I did try the Furan in case the Maracyn 2 didnt get it,
but it made no difference.
The only thing that seems to help is a water change,
but after 2 days shes back the same.
The swelling on her swim bladder area keeps coming up
and going down intermittantly.
She is eating less and less and really I think it is
only a matter of time now.


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