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Yes, it's probably a defect and there isn't anything that can be done about it. Some fish are deformed that way and as long as h isn't otherwise ill leave him alone.

but there is soo much room in my tank, and its 20 gallons with just those handful of fish. how is that overstocked

I know!!! Is it a 20g long or tall? The rule is generally 1 inch of (full grown size) fish for every gallon (I don't know about frogs) Or you can calculate the surface area (length X width) and divide by 12. This gives you the total inches of full grown fish.

So for your tank

-3 guppies = +/- 6 inches
-5 Black Penguin Tetras = +/- 7.5 inches
-1 Red Platy = +/- 2.5 inches
-2 Frogs = ?? 5 inches??
-1 Black Sailfin Molly = +/- 5 inches

These sizes come from this site and are maximum sizes, http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/ so you have a total of 26 inches of fish and amphibians which means you are still slightly overstocked. This will affect you water quality and your fish. It's important that you do your water changes and gravel vacs weekly. You can keep an overstocked aquarium if you are diligent about keeping an eye on the water quality.
Also with guppies, you're going to have fry. You can either leave them as food for the other fish and frogs or try to raise them in which case you'll need another aquarium.

Some fish prefer a lower pH, some higher...

Most, if not all, will adapt to pH values, if not suddenly changed, the upper target not exceeding 9.0.

Nitrates, like other values, should be in range, perhaps not to exceed 50-60ppm. There are those hobbyists, primarily Discus keepers, that frown on those numbers and prefer a lower nitrate value.

Betta owners may prefer to keep nitrate values at or below 10ppm because of the delicate finnage those fish possess. It would seem Bettas have an awful time with fin rot and demand more frequent water changes to dilute nitrates.

It would be practical for Betta lovers experiencing fin problems to test for tap water nitrates right at the source.

I personally, like Lyn, do not constantly test for nitrates when all other tests are reasonable and fish damage/stress is non-existant.

If you suspect that your fish are under stress, a nitrate test would be in order if all other tests are within range.

--garyroland.

[span class="edited"][Edited by garyroland 2004-08-01 15:06][/span]

mine is 8.4 and none of my fish are dying

it dont think ph is that important, as long as its stable

My pH is 7.4

Fishyd water quality is "Essential"( absolutly necessary) in fish keeping.
high levels of NirtAte increases stress and reduces the capacity to resist diseases.
high levels of ammonia do the same,it should not exceed 1.2mg/L. Overstocked tanks, overfeeding, decaying food,decaying fish, dead plant matter,fish even give of ammonia. so alot of fish in a small tank..this test needs to be included in fish keeping.

when the PH is high the ammonia is at its toxic form.Toxic ammonia will increase with increasing PH levels and temperature. PH over 8.0 is very toxic.3 posts you had said your PH is ok,its fine..well what is the number? your fish are dropping off pretty fast,14 in a 20gal and thats what left!! your tank is very toxic I would guess, it sounds alomost impossible for any test to read proper levels including the PH..

These 2 tests are important for your tank and more so the fish inhabiting it.
What *chemicals?? salts and other bottled remedies you are buying you could purchase the proper tests you need.

Sue..

[span class="edited"][Edited by 2004-08-01 02:38][/span]

Gary, Trys and others, I agree the water quality tests are necessary, however at this point Dustin is not experiencing any more losses and is doing water changes and gravel vacs. Overstocking was (and potentially still could be) and issue. But given his present circumstances I did not feel it was in his best interests to tell him he was doing a poor job. I think he is aware that the tests need to be purchased and the water needs to be monitored but at the moment that's beyond his finances. I agree that perhaps I should have mentioned that it was necessary for him to purchase those when he could or at least take the water to the LFS for testing.
Browbeating a 16 year old is usually not in anyone's best interest but I do agree I was neglectful.
Anyway, Dustin, I hope you're still with us and that the fish are still hanging in there.

Get the test kits as soon as you can or take the water to the LFS for a reading and ask for NUMBERS not just an "it's fine". Numbers are important. Also, in an established tank PH will remain relatively constant and doesn't usually need to be monitored. Ammonia and NitrItes are the most important.

I have to admit, I don't test for NitrAtes....
OOPS - Gary's gonna give me heck now....

I was wondering if she read the original post...

If she was generating a positive statement then certainly I support that.

She's a nice girl. We chat sometimes.

--garyroland.

I think that trystianity is just reiterating that we need the other readings in a way that convey's it as very important. Ergo, asking it three times. Doesn't mean that trystianity didn't read the post, she is just trying to get the pertinent information so everyone can help.

Disregard this if you were joking in kind!

[span class="edited"][Edited by JediDragon 2004-07-31 19:35][/span]

You didn't read the post, Tryst...

He doesn't test for water parameters.

I think they call that running a tank "by the seat of your pants".

(Not your pants).

--garyroland.

errrr I just popped in to ask a few questions:

What are your numbers for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

What are your numbers for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

WHAT ARE YOUR NUMBERS FOR AMMONIA, NITRITE AND NITRATE?

Ok now that we got that far. . . we can't really help until you give us some answers here. I'm also curious to know what chemicals you're using.

i'll bet my right arm your water isnt "fine"

Somebody who does not test for water parameters is not "doing fine", Lyn...

There's no way one can be aware of a tank's cycle without those tests.

Come on Hobbyists...let's get real.

If his fish are dropping like flies you all must know the reason.

--garyroland.

Well Dustin, I think you're doing just fine. Yes, it's not a cheap hobby. We found that out when we started (only 1 1/2 yrs ago) I don't add salt to my freshwater aquarium at all. It's not really necessary. I do add it to the betta tanks but I went to the grocery and bought coarse salt (make sure it has no additives), it's cheaper than sea salt.

thanks, well, i am VERY dilligent about my water quality, atleast in the sense of vacuuming and testing pH levels. Salt is added and even epson salt. So its is a perfectly fine water quality to me, i dont know what im doing wrong. this is turning out to be a bit more of an expensive hobby than i thought with all these test kits and sea salt and filter cartridges and so on and so forth, i mean, im only 16 with a part time job working at Boston Pizza, and Im not paid a hell of a lot, so im not rich or anything...just minimum wage. anyway, thanks for your opinions guys. since i posted this, there hasnt been any deaths, so hopefully everything is okay. I wont be buying any more fish until (if I do) September. WHen I come back from vacation and stuff to see if my vacation feeders didnt kill all my fish while i was gone.

I do not understand why half of my fish stock are dying. all my baby fry died, ( i know why), then my black sailfin molly, then my red platy, then 2 guppies. All within the last few weeks. I dont know what it is, but the guppies got really fat before they died. and i heard of some sort of disease that does that, but i cant remember the name. Please help me if you have an idea of what it is.

STATS:
14 livestock TOTAL! -12 which are fish.- (2 frogs)
-3 Guppies
-5 Black Penguin Tetras
-1 Red Platy
-2 Frogs
-1 Black Sailfin Molly
20 gallon aquarium
ph is perfectly okay. salt is added in aquarium and is the right amount.
PLEASE HELP!!!

but there is soo much room in my tank, and its 20 gallons with just those handful of fish. how is that overstocked? but okay, i respect your opinion, and it seems like his spine is bent. so i dont know. but he doesnt seem to be rubbing himself anywhere in the tank. probably just a defect. but i dont know that for sure.

Is his spine bent or is he twitching and trying to rub on the gravel or ornaments in the tank?
If he is "flashing" he could have some sort of parasite problem and you'll need to determine what type in order to treat it.
In the meantime keep up with the regular water changes 30% about once a week and make sure to gravel vac part of the gravel every week to get rid of all the gunk.
Also, you're tank is pretty well stocked so don't add any more fish. I'm sure the overstocking had something to do with your losses.

under control for the moment, one of my guppies and one of my frogs have been behaving kind of weird today, like the frog floating at the top all day, and my guppy standing upright for quite a while, oh, and while im speaking re: my guppy, my adult male guppy has some sort of spine problem, it flinches and stuff every now and then. anyway....

Okay, so it appears you may have been moderately overstocked when the deaths started but not too bad. I'm not sure why the fry died but more than likely they were either eaten or couldn't handle the water quality and stocking.
I assume you do about 30% water change at least once every 2 weeks? and gravel vac??
You haven't mentioned any more deaths so are they under control now?

My tank is almost 7 months old, and its cycles fine. And the fish listed are the current ones, not what died.
oh, and the last time i did a water change was sunday.