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Hello everyone;

I was just looking for some feedback on this:

I bought a Mini-bow 5 gallon to use as a quarantine tank, set it up and cycled it as I normally do (fishless). This is the third tank I've done and the first time I've had any problems. Everything appeared to be fine. Water parameters were steady at ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5, pH 7.8.

Last night I bought 2 ottos and 4 small harlies, and put them in the tank. I was going to quarantine them before moving them into my existing 38gal tank. However, by this morning, the harlies were already dead, and the ottos died this afternoon

What could have killed them all so quickly? I checked the water a couple of hours before the ottos died, and the parameters were still good. None of the fish showed any external signs of disease.

Any thoughts?


Last edited by misty7 at 29-Nov-2005 20:42

I'm no expert, but maybe it was because the water was too alkaline? I think ottos like neutral water, but they could be aclimated to the water parameters.

The harlies I'm not sure on.
If any would have gotten my vote on death once in any owners care it would have been the ottos. They're known for delayed mortality syndrome, often dying after a few weeks in the tank because of how they're treated in the stores.

How do you go about your acclimation process?
Did you have plenty of time to look over the fish in the store or did the sales staff rush you?
Also, how long of a drive home and what is the transport process?

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Thanks for your thoughts, Fry and Babelfish!

I don't think the pH would be an issue, just because I have other ottos from the same store who have been alive and well for about a year in my other tanks.

I let the fish sit in the bag for about 1/2 hour, then added small amounts of the tank water before releasing the fish. The drive from the store to my place is about 15-20 minutes. At the store, I didn't get to pick out the specific fish that I wanted, but I did take a good look at the tanks the fish were in to make sure there were no dead or sick occupants before buying. All of the fish looked fine when I got them home.

After reading some of the other posts here, I'm starting to wonder if there wasn't some kind of bacteria or virus happening? I've broken down and cleaned out everything that was in the tank, and will try again after it re-cycles.

Thanks again!

Last edited by misty7 at 02-Dec-2005 06:44

After my own experience with sudden mysterious deaths, the BIG question you should be asking is this. Has your water company fouled up?

Back at the beginning of October, I performed my usual water change régime on my Panda Fun Palace™ and the breeding aquarium. The breeding aquarium was done first, and there was no cross-contamination between the aquaria (I'm pretty scrupulous about this, partly to stop snails getting in the breeding aquarium!).

All hell broke loose. First my Lemons started dying off at a rate of knots, followed by two Panda Corys and my Cardinals. At first, everything appeared to be confined to the main aquarium (the Panda Fun Palace&#8482, but then suddenly fish started dying in the breeding aquarium too. Many of the fish that died looked pristine - dead, but pristine.

I later discovered that I was not the only person in the area to suffer fish losses at that time. Several other aquarists experienced deaths following a water change timed at around the same time as me, and several pond keepers who added water to their ponds on the same date had massive die-offs (one pond keeper lost £2,000 worth of Koi).

After some research, I alighted upon the most probable cause. Aluminium sulphate.

Aluminium sulphate is used in water treatment plants to remove suspended matter ('particulates' in the trade). The trouble is, aluminium sulphate is lethal to fish in small quantities. Usually, it's removed from tap water prior to the tap water being piped to our homes, but if there's been a pollution incident affecting the source, water companies will adopt the less than happy approach of carpet bombing the incoming supply with treatment chemicals to try and deal with the incident, and worry afterwards about excess treatment chemicals filtering into the tap water supply. Presumably because the treatment chemicals, though they may make the water taste bad in large quantities, will have fewer detrimental effects upon humans than, say, a mass influx of Vibrio cholerae bacteria, which given half a chance, will kill hundreds if not thousands of people. Given a choice between a possible cholera epidemic and bad tasting water, the companies will plump for the latter. Trouble is, if aluminium sulphate is one of the treatment chemnicals used, your fish are, effectively, stuffed.

If you experienced ANY other problems in any other aquaria in which water changes took place, yet none in which water changes did not take place, this is going to be your answer. Treatment chemicals in your tapwater. If you look at the ecological impact statements on chemical suppliers' websites for aluminium sulphate, they'll all say the same thing: aluminium sulphate is harmful to fish and aquatic life.

The bad news is that you can't get rid of it by boiling. Many of the proprietary dechlorinators, which also contain metal chelation agents, will be overwhelmed completely by aluminium sulphate. However, I'm working on a possible means of dealing with this in future - for one thing, most aluminium compounds are insoluble in water, so finding a means of precipitating the aluminium out will be useful. Trouble is, I've yet to find a precipitating agent that won't kill the fish as well.

The good news - if you've shelled out for one already - is that RO units will stop it crossing into your fish tank supplies. But then an RO unit is a pretty pricey bit of kit, and while Discus and marine keepers will justify one on the basis that they have several thousands of dollars worth of animals in their aquaria, it's a bit harder to justify the expense of an RO unit for zebra danios. Unless of course your water company's "incidents" are likely to be frequent, in which case you'll be buying one for your own health and safety!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I'm not sure exactly how you extract your fish from the store bags, but if i were you, i'd NEVER NEVER NEVER put store water in with your own water, they water in stores is often circulated to most of the tanks, and can easily carry diseases. If the fish get a little stressed in the move, that can cause easy death.

What i do when i bring new fish home is, i let the bag float for 15-20 minutes, depending on temps and whatnot. I then partially empty the bag about 1/4 of the way, and replace the water with water from my own tank via a plastic cup. i retie the bag and wait another 10 minutes or so. that way the fish you're about to add can get used to the water conditions a little better in your tank. then i take the fish to a sink and net them out and replace them into my own tank. if you're adding catfish or plecos, i would maybe use a smaller cup seeing as how the nets get caught on the fins.

other than that everything sounds good.. i always put a big squirt of stress coat in when i add some new fish, just for good measure.

Good luck,
Chelle

*Chelle*
_______________________________________________
I love the fishes cuz they're SOOO delicious...

Or you could just wait until the temps are level, and then net the fish out of the bag and pop it in the tank.

Ditto never ever putting store water in your home tank!
If it was a chain store they usually net out the fish before you even get a chance to see if there are any sick fish. Just because the tanks look healthy doesnt mean they are. Another reason to q-tine .

15-20 minutes transport isn't all that long, but it's still quite a ways for a fish to get stressed in. Additionally I'm a big fan of the 4 hour acclimation. After floating the bag for 15 minutes begin exchanging store water with tank water making sure that the water you remove from the bag goes into house plants or down the drain. Add about 1/4 cup water from your tank to the bag every 15 minutes removing water from the bag as necessary. Remember it's not just temp and Ph you have to acclimate to .

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Wow, guys thanks for all the advice yet again! Especially about not putting the store water in the tank - I used to do that, it never occurred to me how risky that would be. Thank you Chelaine and Babelfish.

As for the water supply issue, Calilasseia, in this case I don't think that was the problem, since we also did a water change on our other tanks around that time, and have had no other problems. Certainly is food for thought, though.

Just as an update - I broke down that little tank, boiled everything in it, and started all over again. We now have 3 new harlies in there, and they have been doing fine for just over a week now. Whatever it was, I believe it's gone now

Thanks again!