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Hi All,

A few weeks ago one of my male Endlers in my 15g (tank 2 in my profile) went missing. I checked all around the tank but couldn't find it. He never turned up, but around the same time I noticed another Endler, the biggest one, suddenly had acquired a big, protruding belly. He was acting and eating normally, so I just ignored it. Well, tonight when I did a water change, I found him dead. I really can't figure out what happened to him (or the other Endler that disappeared) since he wasn't showing any signs of sickness apart from the big belly (which he's had for over 3 weeks). The tank is fully planted, has been up and running for almost 6 months, and the parameters are normal (ammonia & nitrite 0ppm, nitrate ~5ppm). The deaths/disappearance didn't occur right after a water change so I don't think it's something in the water. All the other fish look normal. Any ideas?

Thanks!

-P

It has been my experience that these little guys are always dying from some unknown reason. (not too helpful I know) I have kept a bunch of them for ages and I am always finding dead ones on the bottom of the tank. I have come to believe that their true life span is almost as small as their males are!!

That being said, I would expect if there was something wrong with your tank it would be the bottom-dwelling Cories and the Botias getting sick and not the other fish.
*shrug* Livebearers die. That is why I stopped keeping them in smaller numbers. If you keep lots of them then you don't notice the odd death as much..

Sorry for your loss.
L.

Odd thing, Ive kept few and lots of these fish and never lost one just because. I know this due to the fact I had them all named =)

Was the fish pineconed?
Or was it swimming even SLIGHTLY funny?

It sucks when a fish dies for no reason but think hard of ANY symptoms, even ones they may not have been visible very much. Sometimes you may remember seeing something that you didn't notice at first.

What about poops?
Was he pooping normal?

Keep an eye out on the rest of the tank in case and look for other symptoms.


Angel Eel

Thanks for the replies.
No, I didn't notice any pineconing or odd swimming behavior. I never saw him poop (not to say he never did ), so I can't confirm whether that part is normal or not. If Endlers do have a short lifespan, then I don't think I'll want to add more. It's too depressing for me to have fish die without reason (apart from old age).

-P

Most of the descriptions of Poecilia reticulata's lifespan seem to be anything from 2-5 years, although obviously this could become significantly reduced due to inbreeding and social stress, although they are a relatively peaceful fish.

Sometimes its just bad luck with a certain batch, if you replace them try getting them from some other source than last time.

Protruding bellies can easily be caused by worms or bacterial infections, so if you can stand it send it to a vet for a post mortem, or if you take a look yourself sometimes you can define the cause.Ok its gruesome, but if youre flat broke it can be your only option.If they all died id totally gut the tank, completely clean it,even down to the last bit of filter media and substrate, and cycle it all again before putting fish in it again.

Last edited by longhairedgit at 20-Oct-2005 23:34

I wonder how much it would cost to get your vet to do a postmortem on a male Endler???

Here in NS it costs about 60 dollars for a vet visit. I'd assume that they'd charge you at least 50 bucks for the postmortem procedure (assuming they didn't laugh you out of the room first ) Then of course there's tax.... That'd be 120 dollars (+/-) for a fish the size of a nickel!!!

Sorry to make fun upikabu, but I just couldn't help myself...

:%)

ITKWYM, littlecatjoe. My family already thinks I'm nuts for spending so much time on my fish tanks. I think having a postmortem done on a $5 fish would really push them over the edge. Would love to be able to do it for curiosity's sake though. If it were a $100 fish, then I'd seriously consider it.

-P

I dont think the monetary value of the fish is of any significance. Any animal that I take responsibility for is given the best support I can give , and if one dies from an unknown cause I owe it to the rest of them to find out why. Personally i never put money over lives or knowledge.

Not doing something when its expensive and you cant afford it is one thing, but having the money and not doing it because you dont think a life is worth anything is quite another. A pet is a pet.

Hi, I believe that 2 years is a good lifespan for an Endler. Temperature does play a part, keeping them at lower temps ( 70-75) increases their lifespan and they are said to produce more males at lower temps, but may not breed as often.

It sad when some die young. Do you know the history of your own Endlers - they may have been very in bred already when you got them - is that possible? Inbreeding for several genrations (six months = 4-6 drops of fry from a female= 2/3 generations) will weaken the fish and cause premature death in some.

It is recommended that you introduce at least 5% and preferably 10% new stock ( males and females) every 6 months or so to keep some genetic diversity, especially good if you can introduce different colour strains - ie if you have mostly Black Bars, introduce some other pure strain, if you dont mind having a mixed bunch.

If you have more than one or two strains together then one of your strains may already be becoming dominant and if there is a genetic weakness it may flourish without introduction of new stock occasionally.

If you know other pure Endler owners in your area you could do a regular 5-10% swap, twice a year, - assuming you both got your stock from different sources in the first place. Swap your older most mature Endlers, and especially any males that you suspect to be a dominant male that may have fathered more fry than others.

If you dont know anyone nearby you could have some shipped to you. I have received Endlers by post 4 times now from within the UK and as long as the night time temp is mild enough, and they are well prepared, packed and insulated, they travel really well and I have had no losses. Its best to use guaranteed 24 hr delivery though, and not at the weekend.

Last edited by shiftingsands at 01-Nov-2005 03:27

Last edited by shiftingsands at 01-Nov-2005 03:31