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I have realized that my oscar's illness may be protozoan. A LFS offered to take one of my sick oscars off my hands and now I am keeping close eye on my remaining 13" oscar in my 75g tank. I hav been treating with pennicillin which helped with the fungal problem but now I believe theres something more. A protozoan infection. My oscar has a cavity in the center of its head above its eyes and they whole top of his head and along his back seems to be thinning and turning a off white, light tan color (on an albino oscar). His head is also drooping slightly and at times he just wanders around the tank and goes on the bottom, body slanted. For over 5 days now I have been doing 25-30% partial water changes on my tank everyday. Today was the last day of pennicillin treatment. and now I believe the fungal infection is gone and there is still a protozoan infection. I have been researching and am wondering , whether Metronidazole is the way to go? Its not at my LFS but I am ready to do next-day shipping for the meds if it's going to help. If not what med will save my oscar? and please no "stop the meds preachers". Thank you for any advice.
Water info:
Nitrite = 0.0ppm
Nitrate = 5.0ppm
Ammonia = between 0.15-0.20ppm
PH = 7.7

Yup, sounds like you have hexamita, metronidazole is a good treatment for it. Hexamita cannot be effectively treated by usual antibiotics or vitamin c therapy alone.

When the holes appear the hexamita is already very advanced. Metronidazole is probably the only thing that will stop it now. Dont wait.

Please dont assume from my last entry that I am in any way anti the use of drugs, often theres no other option. I was merely pointing out that the antibiotic you used last time may have affected the water quality so adversely in a tank that wasnt spotless that the short term effects of its administration were more lethal than the effects of the disease in the short term.

Since you have now done water changes to remedy this ( Having to do that is a common experience for many of us using antibiotic btw, and I have often recommended that people clean tanks before adding meds for this very reason -ie : filter death and water pollution might be inevitable depending on the drug you use, but if its clean the antibiotic has less bacteria to react against thusly not stopping filter death but softening the blow of the water quality changes ) and now you have some definitive signs of hexamita, and they should be treated asap. And no, I dont think contributions from the " im against drug squad" will be helpful at this stage either.

At least metronidazole will not affect water quality, but to prevent secondary infections later you may find it neccessary to use antibiotics again. Obviously this could cause water quality issues again. Nobody said treatments werent a rough ride for the fish, but not using them is certain death in many cases. I would suggest a different antibiotic next time though. A lot of it can be trial and error.

I think this part of medical support (ie trying to limit the damage done by antibiotics on the filter) during treatments is worth a whole new thread of discussion, hopefully you and I both will learn something useful from it.

Last edited by longhairedgit at 03-Dec-2005 03:12

thanks for your input. All of my LFS's are out of this medication so I am waiting for it to come. i should hav it by tomorrow in the mail. I'm hoping it wont be too late. How will I know if my fish is near-death or not? He seems to be swimming more. I have been adding some beneficial bacterial to my tank for a couple days to help it cycle better. Might this have sumthing to do with his improvement? I don't want to be fooled into thinking hes doing better when hes just getting closer to death. The hole has neither gotten bigger nor smaller so I'm hoping the water changes are slowing down the progress of the disease. Since I dont have the meds yet is there anything I can be doing to help him?
-christine

Thats a tough one to know, I had a load of discus with it a while back, one out of 6 died, he didnt look any worse than the others but he only survived into day2 of the treatment, the others had symptoms that lasted weeks and they lived, so its difficult. The size of the holes enlarging is pretty obviously a sign that the infection is getting worse, but sometimes the damage can continue with no visible sign. On the last couple of days before death the fish will start to show signs of weakness, sinking laboured swimming and so on. Id probably euthanise when it gets to that kind of stage, but dont give up before then. Sometimes its better to hang in there until the last moment. Sometimes its better to go through a bit of pain and suffering for a chance at survival . Id only euthanise if I was sure the fish only has a few hours left, and trust me it will look so tired and weak the decision will come fairly easily.

How about some more info:
What/is anything else in the tank?
Is the tank planted?
How often do you clean it?
How much water do you change when you do a clean?
How old is the fish?
How long has it presented the 'symptoms'?
How large is the wound?
What do you feed the fish as it's staple diet?
How long has the tank been established?

It's all well and good to treat the symptoms, but what caused the problem in the first place? If it is a parasite, it didn't just magically arrive. It was either introduced, or as is more typical, it was always there but something else has effect your fish to make it susceptible to the parasite. By all means, treat the symptoms... but if you don't find the cause of the problem, your fish will die. Using med's with HITH, in my experience, does not help the fish when you don't know the cause of the problem.

thanks.. I finally hav the meds for him. I started treatment yesterday and hes had his second dose today. he seems a tad perkier so I'm thinking the meds are working.. will the holes start to disappear as treatment progresses?
and no the tank is not planted, I hav rocks and fake plants in the tank. and hes in the tank by himself. I dont know the age but I imagine hes at least 4 by how large he is. He has several holes, not just one(about 1/2mm-1mm) and hes had these symtoms for a week, maybe week and a half. I've tried offering brine shrimp, bloodworms, flakes, krill, pellets(sinking and floating), but no luck with him eating. I clean the tank every couple days now, with about 25-30% changes. The tank's been established for a few weeks and I've been adding beneficial bacteria to help with the ammonia and nitrite levels.

The holes will stop getting any bigger as you treat them, and they will most likely change to a more natural colour. Do a web search for HITH and you will see many photos of the disease. The scaring is permanent - your fish will always have marks on it.

Sounds like your cause might have been water quality. Oscars are tough fish, normally, but are big sook's. If you move them, they will become unhappy and start to sulk... which effects their health as they wont eat. Where did the fish come from, and what were they feeding it?

Oscar's can hit 13" is less than 2 years. The size of your fish is no indication of it's age.

Now, how long have you kept Oscar's, or have you done it before? I'm not saying i'm god's gift to big fat fish... but it's not uncommon to mistake the sensory pit's on an Oscars head (which are quite large) as some sort of disease. Certainly, the fact your fish has recently moved house will account for it's moody behaviour. All i'm suggesting is that if it's the first time you've kept O's, and you're rightly paranoid, you may be mistaking the combination of behaviour and pits as a disease. Perhaps some photo's of the fish would be helpful here... or perhaps i'm just jumping the gun and you already know what you're doing!

Otherwise... if the pit's are HITH, you've caught it very early. Keep up with the water changes and med's, and you Oscar should be happier in no time.

I hav kept an oscar previously yes. I had one a couple years back in a 55g, but was moving at the time and had to get rid of the fish. there are several holes on his head and along his jaw so I know its not the sensory pit you were reffering too. The meds seem to be improving my fish, his skin around his eyes are back and the holes have stopped growing, but I believe theres something secondary going on. My fish is seizuring, swimming backwards and floating at the top, but the symptoms of hexamita are still decreasing and I dont know what to do. Its like my fish is getting better and worse at the same time. What should I do? He struggles extremely hard just to look at me then he just gives up and goes tilted on his side again. The ammonia level is low, nitrites are low, nitrates are moderate, pH is 7.7. Everything seems to be in good range.

Ideally ammonia and nitrites should be zero, especially when dealing with cichlids, but obviously when using meds this can be hard to maintain. As soon as the meds have run their course you could try re-establishing the filter bacteria with products like "cycle" etc. Theres no more advice to give really, other than keep hanging in there.Sometimes helping the fish to survive can be an exercise in persistance and sheer will. If hes still reluctant to eat, try some live foods that are easy to catch like worms etc. Sometimes this can snap them out of their apathy. Protozoa often get deep into tissues, the nervous system included, and two days isnt long for meds to work. Id hang in there at least another week. Even using metronidazole, recovery usually takes more than a week, and then many more weeks for the immune system to recover, and perhaps many months for the scarring to reduce.These things can get quite drawn out, but if it were you who was ill, youd want a chance of life, so give the fish one.Badly infected fish often look worse in the first few days of treatment, and small wonder, often there is a chemical war being raged in their veins, but if you dont try , you dont win.

Good luck.





Last edited by longhairedgit at 13-Dec-2005 08:55

Ammonia level is low - exactly what is the number? Have you added an air stone? Increased ammonia reduce the efficiency of the fish gills. Increasing airation will help offset the ammonia effect, and help the fish 'breath'.

Also, if you let the acidity of your water increase slightly and slowly, it will help with the nitrite effects the fish is experiencing.

I take it you've already done the mandatory decrease light so the fish rests more?

i have been after some metronidazole for 2 days now,and of all the places i rang and visited said that they didnt carry it,the one place that did have it,was out of stock and not gettin anymore in,so im going to try my local vet,