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http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070424-new-planet.html

The first known planet beyond the solar system that could harbor life as we know it has been discovered, scientists report.

The most Earthlike planet yet found, it orbits a red dwarf star and likely contains liquid water, said the European astronomers who made the discovery.

The planet is estimated to be only 50 percent larger than Earth, making it the smallest planet yet found outside the solar system, according to a team led by Stephane Udry of the Geneva Observatory in Switzerland.

Known as Gliese 581 c, the newfound world is located in the constellation Libra, some 20.5 light-years away.

The planet is named after the red dwarf star it orbits, Gliese 581, which is among the hundred closest stars to Earth.

Because the planet is 14 times nearer to its star than Earth is to the sun, a year there lasts just 13 days. Gravity on the planet's surface, though, may be twice as strong as Earth's gravity.

Despite the close proximity to its parent star, however, Gliese 581 c lies within the relatively cool habitable zone of its solar system. That's because red dwarfs are relatively small and dim, and are cooler than our sun, the team explained.

The scientists estimated the planet's surface temperature at between 32 and 104 degrees Fahrenheit (0 and 40 degrees Celsius).

"This means water can exist in liquid form," Udry said. "If you want life like our own, then you need water."

The team reports its findings in the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics.

Rock or Oceans

The new world could feature familiar, rocky terrains or be completely covered with oceans, the researchers said.

"We still have a long way to go before reaching that point. But for sure it's the best candidate we know of right now," Udry commented.

"The planet is really close to us," he said. Still, it would take 20 years to get there if traveling at the speed of light, and another 20 to return.

Gliese 581 c is better suited to life than larger planets like Jupiter, which tend to be dense masses of gas, Udry explained.

"You need a rocky planet to find life—the big giants are not the best places for that," he said.

More precise instruments have recently enabled astronomers to detect small "exoplanets"—worlds found outside our solar system.

"We started to find them two or three years ago," Udry said. Thirteen exoplanets that have less than 20 times the weight of Earth have been discovered so far, he noted.

"We found them very easily, so it looks like they are much more numerous than the giant planets we were finding before," the astronomer said.

Planet Hunter

The new planet was detected using an instrument called a spectrograph at the European Southern Observatory at La Silla, Chile.

Known as the High Accuracy Radial Velocity Planetary Searcher (HARPS), the device is described by the team as a "unique planet-hunting machine."

It works by detecting the pull of an unseen exoplanet on the star it orbits. An orbiting planet causes its star to wobble slightly, and this effect can be measured by instruments such as HARPS.

Advanced spectrographs are enabling astronomers to detect ever smaller planets, said Michael Perryman of the European Space Agency's Astrophysics Missions Division in the Netherlands.

"The wobble for these planets that they are detecting now is very, very tiny—about three meters [nine feet] per second, which is about the speed you run at," Perryman said.

"New planets are being discovered every few weeks or so," he added. "The interesting development is when you start getting these lower-mass planets closer to [the weight] of the Earth."

The newfound planet is especially noteworthy, Perryman said.

"As soon as you find a planet at the right distance [from its star] such that liquid water might exist, then you're saying this is the kind of environment in which one might start looking for life," he added.

Udry, of the Geneva Observatory, said the goal of future programs is to find a planet and star pairing to match that of Earth and the sun.

"We are now developing instruments which will allow us to find those," Udry said

"We hope, and even expect, to have these habitable planets all over the place."

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Awesome.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

YAY!!! another planet for us to destroy!!! WOOT

That is very cool however somewhat not surprising. Given the sheer magnitude of the galaxy that our little peabrains can't even come close to comprehending, somehow you had to have known it would happen eventually.

That is very cool however somewhat not surprising. Given the sheer magnitude of the galaxy that our little peabrains can't even come close to comprehending, somehow you had to have known it would happen eventually.

Try telling that to creationists.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

Very cool. And expected.

Psstt Not all creationists are the same . Some do believe there are plenty of other worlds out there, but that a higher power did create them even if they did also evlove.

I did a whole 20 page paper 10pt font on it back in one of my astrophysics courses in uni if you really want to read it.

So sad that the space program died out after the cold war I wanna go

^_^

<-- Christian



Lets see, Bible says nothing (to my knowledge) about other planets other than God creating them. It does say that He created other planets, but nothing on weather or not there is life or, as this article states, the ability to have life (article never says anything about it having life, just liquid H2O, thus the ABILITY to contain life.

You'll be hard pressed to get a thinking Creationist to believe otherwise.

Not to mention, God proved he existed, thus he does not, and vanished in a puff of logic.

Cool, twice gravity You could keep deep sea fish in tanks there Water density might be quite something.

Those who believe in god will no doubt adapt the new knowledge to suit their purposes as they always do.

The scientologists will say "oh you only just found that one?"

Now all we need to do is figure out how to put in 20 light years with all the remaining fuel on earth, and not die of old age during the trip. By the time we get there it might have exploded anyway . In fact, it might already not be there.

Oh, you guys just found that one?


That's a pretty cool discovery. It would be pretty sweet if they were able to take some photos of the surface, but I guess they'd have to send a probe or something for that. Out of the question at this distance.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.

thats odd, I could have sworn that there is numerous proof to a greater being, and in fact, one religion has never been disproven...

anyway, this thread is about another planet found, not religion, so if anyone wants to discuss religion, lets start another thread, or PM's are very nice.

I notice that no creationist made any claim that what Natalie suggested we'd disagree with was even true. And I think most of the arguments that have been made and the dissing of creationists has stemmed from that comment. Can't we just talk about how cool it is that there's another planet out there with liquid water? Could you imagine living there?

><>

I never know what all the arguing is about with religion, not being able to disprove something is not the same as it actually existing.

I cant prove baked beans in oanother dimension dont take holidays in torrelmolinos, but im pretty sure they dont. Im pretty sure pigs cant fly too, but I cant prove it, because I havent traveled the entire earth down the the last sqaure inch, there may be a himalayan winged pig, but I doubt it.

Man creates god in his own image, always has probably always will, its an emotional need, that I can prove.

What people believe is up to then, but when I hear that "god cant be disproved therefore he must exist" arguement all I do is give out a big fat BAH! Thats a childs rhetoric. It is no proof of divinity.

As for many scientologists, well its a weird religion, ron l hubbard was a sci-fi writer, and IMHO not a particularly good one at that. Seems odd that such a man should be the foundation of a religion for people, but then so is really big faces on easter island or a small cross around someones neck.

Ill believe when I see, not before. No matter what anyone says. One thing I am sure of, is that religion is power, and as such is very seductive. I can proove religion exists, just not any particular god. Wish I could, it might be more fun, but then... I think most of the worlds population knows the real truth. Were on our own out here kids.

Its big , its scary, and im not surprised people turn to their gods. If you ask yourself why you need a god in absolute truth and clarity, then more often than not , you have the insight to know within yourself if god is real. For me he isnt, but for others I can well imagine he is.

To me god is a childrens story, a bond to youth reluctantly left behind, and a lie perpetuated by evil men to gain power over the weak, but to others it is salvation, hope, dignity, and the only thing between them and suicide. Let people have their hopes, sure, but divorce religion from any standing in law. Belief stays where it should be in my book. The domain of the mind. Respect the ways of others to live differently, but watch your own door for the intrusions of nutters.

Its probably always been this way. I know better than to preach to the converted, although a jehovahs witness that engaged me in conversation over three weeks did lose her faith. Oddly enough her life improved after, and she took responsibility for things she had previously though were the domain of god.

Whatever works.

Without god, there is only the self, and that is more than many people can accept responsibility for, but I understand that. That was me too once, as a child. I got over it. If I show religious tolerance , conversely therefore, I am allowed respect for not believing in any god. I think you get extra marks for working out life on your own , especially if you happen to do a good job. If any given god , should by some freak chance actually turn out to be real, I doubt very much if I get looked upon harshly for doing what seems reasonable to me, and if they do jusge harshly, then thats against the freedom of will I so vehemently believe in. In which case the devil gets a new recruit. I figure i'll face lifes battles on my own, be they in the face of a life filled with god, or in utter godlessness.

Ultimately id rather work it out for myself. If I win I win, if I lose I lose. At least i'll know I was at the helm , doing what I could. Culpability is always part of life, and no god will absolve my sins, or take the credit for the good I do.

Its like helping fish, when I give advice in the forums, its certainly not for spiritual gain, and god sure as hell didnt tell me to do it, I just appreciate the diversity of life, and I think every being should have a fair crack of the whip. Seeing life continue makes me happy, in fact its pretty much the only thing that makes me happy.Im also aware that if more people though like I do , the world would not be polluted, the planet wouldnt be dying, and TBH there would be a lot less need for any god, perhaps because the fears that often drive people to religion would be a lot less prevalent. Im not at odds with the human situation, no abstract laws from my mouth would see problems morally with controlling the spread of our species. When religion is at odds with the happy destiny of the planet I lose all faith. That, for me is the marker. Anything that gets in the way of that eventually must be trodden on so that we and millions of other species survive.

This isnt an anti-religious comment, but have you ever noticed how many people who claim to be devoutly religious , dont actually offer any solutions to saving the planet , and in many cases what is actually involved in saving the planet is contrary to their teachings.

For me , what saves the planet and the diversity of life is the religion, anything that deals with less important stuff, is usually just humanity flagellating itself for no good reason. Religion is a challenge of the mind, and the planet we live on the test of effective divinity. At the end of the day, you gotta go with that old ball of mud your bum is parked on. It wins , you lose.We all lose.

Even if there is a heaven, it would seem much less sweet to me if I screwed things up here. Beyond that, I really dont care what humanity does, or thinks.

In me I trust, im afraid.

*gets out a little picket and nails a big sign into the new planet*

"pay attention to me!"


We have been waiting for this for a long time. I'm not sure if I'm more interested in the fact that there may be life similar to, or compatible with ours, or of the possibility that we could live there at some point in the distant future (only the really fit people with some time on their hands mind you, double gravity has got to be a bit of a pain!)

Its all very exciting. And a lovely temperate climate too! bonus!

...

I wonder if it has oil?


*puts on her teacher voice* And we'll be having no more of this science vs religion bizzo unless you can all do it respectfully, there is absolutely no need for all the little digs.



For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

I notice that no creationist made any claim that what Natalie suggested we'd disagree with was even true.

Yeah they did. It's all over that hellhole known as Answers in Genesis. For some reason they are absolutely certain that the Earth is the only planet that could possibly be capable of supporting life.

Or at least that's what they used to think. I notice their site is down now... They're probably going and deleting those articles and finding new ways to twist, bend, and misinterpret scientific information to suit their conspiracies and agendas.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

I wonder if it has oil?

Petroleum is a direct biproduct of life, so unless lifeforms have existed on that planet for millions of years (there could be chance of that, but we have no way of knowing right now), there probably wouldn't be any significant amounts of the substance. It's believed that some petroleum is indeed formed abiogenically (without life), but in nowhere near the amounts that biologically-formed petroleum is.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.