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I just opened an ad to a large chain petstore. I don't know how anyone else feels, but the way these manufacturers are marketing their aquariums, and petstores selling them, is unethical. Anyone with an ounce of fish keeping experience knows that it is not a good idea to keep a goldfish in a 1.7 gallon, filtered tank. Yet, the Holiday ads for a large chain petstore advertising this particular tank.

http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441807849&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302034139&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023689&bmUID=1102260865674

This is a death sentence for many goldfish and just as important, it is a heart of a young child waiting to break as the fish gets sick, then dies. Furthermore, unsuspecting parents who are trusting of the pet store personnel (which they should be able to do), will continue believing that goldfish get old and die at 4-6 months of age.

I propose that we send letters, emails, phone calls to the manufacturers and talk about how they could better market their products. I think we should send copies to many large chain stores and request that they educate their people to sell these products with more responsibility than which they are marketed.

If we don't start seeing changes, then I would like to see a collaborative effort between as many internet fish forums to change the way new hobbyists are being misled into this wonderful hobby. These companies know better, but as usual, we get the behavior we tolerate. I think it's time to stop tolerating and start letting them know how we feel.

Goldfish should be housed in minimum 20 gal tanks for one fish and minimum 10 gallons for each fish thereafter, but only until a certain size. Ultimiately, anyone who has goldfish will tell you that even a 60 gallon tank seems small to a 5-8 year old Ryukin or Oranda.

My aim doesn't start and end with Goldfish. Look carefully the way aquarium products are marketed. Look at the boxes where they call a tiny tank a good marine starter kit with a picture of Nemo.

The web is a powerful way to get the word out. The newbies to the hobby won't know any better and we could argue that they should research first before they buy. No one should buy a live creature without first educating themselves very well first, but many people truly believe you just put the fish in the water and feed them. They are well-intented. It is the companies that are marketing with irresponsibility.

Anyone else feel this way?

For starters, I'm going to email my local newspapers and see if they will run a letter pleading for parents to learn first, then buy. If it makes the paper, I'll put the link here, but I won't hold my breath since it is not top news.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 05-Dec-2004 15:15

Cory I have also seen those popping up all over the place here in Canada, every chain and locally owned store seems to be carrying them and it horrifies me too.

I think a petition or web based campaign is a great idea. Maybe we could draft up a common letter that can be printed and given to managers of every store.

A fine idea, Diane, but unfortunately years late...

You must be old enough to remember goldfish in small bowls given as prizes at festivals, carnivals, etc.

The image of a small goldie swimming in a gallon of water is so imbedded in people's minds that I doubt all the protests in the world would do a bit of good.

The only way you'll get attention is if you call a TV station and report a six foot goldfish with a watergun just tried to hold up the Federal Reserve.

Pass out your protest flyers to the crowds at the bank.

--garyroland.

petsmart are already on my poo poo list because they're testing the market selling ferrets in some states. (and pretty much ignoring the pleas of ferret shelters almost everywhere in this country)

so i'm already on a boycott.

great minds think alike I was infuriated by the very same produvt months ago, please view the link provided so you can see just how much Hagen cares about goldfish ]:|

http://www.goldfishparadise.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11249&highlight=


and for the lazy, here's the email I sent them:

here's my comment:

While perusing your site I have noticed quite a few products geared towards the goldfish owner. While I appreciate the attempt to promote the hardy, beautiful goldfish as a pet, and make it more accessable to aquarists who may not have the space for a large aquarium, I feel that the information and the products you are creating and advocating are not optimum for the fish you are showcasing.

Goldfish are very large fish, reaching over 1 foot in length quite easily, when provided with the space and water quality they need. Bruce, the red oranda (a fancy goldfish commonly thought to only reach a few inches in length) grew to an astounding 17 in length! I myself keep goldfish, and I can attest to the fact that in a large aquarium with room to grow and swim (app. 10 gallons per fish) a goldfish can easily grow to around 8 inches (excluding tail) within a year.

A bowl is certainly not conducive to keeping a happy, healthy goldfish. Goldfish are also very messy and oxygen hungry fish. A bowl or small tank will quickly foul, and buildup of ammonia and nitrite will prove fatal to most goldfish kept in small tanks in short order. A small tank or bowl also has nowhere near the surface area needed for healthy oxygen exchange.

As one of the leading companies specializing in pet care and products, I am disappointed that you are encouraging people to keep their pets in such inhumane conditions with your goldfish oriented small tanks and bowl kits. A fish that can easily live 15 plus years with proper care deserves better.

Why not save a few goldies and focus your smaller tanks and bowl kits towards the betta owners out there?

A response would be much appreciated.


and their reply:

Dear Ms. Ash,
Thank-you for your input. We are aware of the physical characteristics regarding goldfish and optimal conditions for them. Goldfish historically made their debut in the hobby by typically being kept in bowls. When water changes are performed regularly with proper nutrition goldfish can in fact live in good health for many years in a bowl. We also manufacture filters that can be used for bowls that will provide good water quality as well as deliver adequate oxygen levels. We also manufacture a complete line of aquariums (as well as other necessary equipment, such as filtration systems) with sizes ranging up to 130 gallons in volume, providing all consumers with the option of providing their goldfish with larger quarters as they grow. We do offer betta habitats aswell.
Sincerely,
--
Nathalie Bourassa
Représentante des consommateurs
Consumer Representative
Rolf C. Hagen Inc.



if you read through the entire posting I linked to you will see that many hobbyists emailed Hagen, I'm the only one who got a response, and what a condescending, misinformed response it was!

Last edited by guppylove1985 at 05-Dec-2004 18:16

Last edited by guppylove1985 at 05-Dec-2004 18:18

Last edited by guppylove1985 at 05-Dec-2004 18:18

Thanks for posting that. I went to Goldfish Paradise and read some of what was sent. I too jumped in and sent them an email. People need to keep bombarding them and threatening to boycott, then follow through. When they see it hit their bottom line, they will change. This will probably take forever, but it's better than standing around talking about it.

Gary....LMAO I can just see it now

I think we need to email the fish magazines too and get them involved. I wouldn't keep goldfish fry in a 1.7 gallon, let alone anything larger.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 05-Dec-2004 18:27

"if you read through the entire posting I linked to you will see that many hobbyists emailed Hagen, I'm the only one who got a response, and what a condescending, misinformed response it was!"

Oh for pete sake!!...stop the "condescending" nonsense will ya??!!

There was absolutely nothing condescending about that reply to your message. It was a pure reply to your question and right on with fact. Golds can live for many years, and have, in bowls if well taken care of.

The Comets are usually the variety that show up in carnival bowls and are typically slow growers and hardy.

You're lucky the representative even answered you.

--garyroland.

you can't take care of a goldfish well in a small bowl, Gary, you know that.

It did peeve me more than a little bit that they never acknowledged the fact that a big fish doesn't go in a small bowl.

I too have taken the time to email them, Cory Di, and I will post their response when they respond to my email, if they do.
Here is what I wrote them:
Hello,
I am a concerned fish keeper with a strong message for you, I believe it is up to stores such as petsmart, to provide a healthy image of fishkeeping to the public. However, when you do such a thing as propose that a goldfish can live happily in a 1.7 Gallon Tank, you are doing a great disservice to the new hobbyists in the fishkeeping world. A Goldfish, of any kind, requires an aquarium with a minimum size of 50 gallons. Not 2 Gallons, not 10 gallons, 50 Gallons! You should remove this product from your store and your website, and start informing people of how to truly keep happy pets. You as a company are incredibly lucky that the ASPCA and PETA dont consider Fish in their cruelty to animals campaigns, because it is incredibly CRUEL to keep a Large 10 inch goldfish in a 2 gallon bowl. This results in stunting, abnormalities, and a horrible painful death to the fish as its body stops growing and its internal organs continue to grow. These fish literally explode from the inside out. It is unethical and unfair and not at all right of you as a major corporation to promote fish killing practices.
The fact that you are going to respond with a comment that with adequate water changes a goldfish can live many years happily in bowl, is ridiculous, and worthless. Even with water changes, a goldfish, who can produce up to 5 Teaspoons of Poop alone in one day, does not deserve a life like this. Its not a life at all. Think of it this way, Take 1 Human Being of any size, and Put them in a Cardboard box for a Refrigerator. This is where they can live their life out, and see if they will be happy. I dont think so. Promoting these aquariums is unfair and is cruelty to animals.
I for one, suggest you remove it from your website, or remove the words "Goldfish" from your advertisement. Not even a Betta can be kept in a tank so small happily. I for one, would be very impressed if a major corporation like Petsmart would start to do the ethical thing for once, and I am sure many other corporations would follow.
Sincerly, concerned fish keeper,
Koran Weston.


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OK got an email back from hagen, not much of one but I think their attitude has changed just a little bit. Or maybe they're just getting swamped by emails like this. :%)

What I wrote:

I am appalled and horrified by your company's marketing of a 1.7 gallon plastic bowl for keeping goldfish. As you may or may not be aware, fancy goldfish can potentially reach up to 12" in length, common goldfish can reach 24". To properly house just one of these fish, a minimum of 20 gallons is required. Goldfish are heavy waste producers and will quickly die of ammonia poisoning in such a small container.

Your "goldfish" kit would be much better suited to a betta. I urge you, please discontinue the sale of this product or at least promote its use for something more suitable. A foot long fish has no business being kept in a 6 inch bowl, no matter what tradition seems to dictate. I have been keeping fish and buying a variety of your products for over 15 years. I have numerous Aquaclear filters, All Glass aquariums, every Hagen test kit, Nutrafin foods, water conditioners, Cycle, medications. . . I own nearly every product you make and buy them regularly as a hobbyist. The marketing of these goldfish kits has offended me to the point where I am ready to permanently boycott EVERY Hagen product on the market and I will be advising every hobbyist I know to do the same. I am a member of a few aquarium clubs in my area and I will be mentioning this at our next meeting. Many of us will commonly spend a few hundred dollars every month on your company's products but your marketing suggests that we may want to take our business elsewhere. I am also sending petitions to every pet store I deal with, as I will boycott them as well until I see this product taken off of their shelves. I am drafting up letters to send to the editorial sections of my local newspapers, urging shoppers to pass on these goldfish kits as they are cruel to the fish and will only end in heartbreak when their beloved pet dies prematurely or has to be given away to a better home. I know I'm not the only one sending you complaints about this, other hobbyists I know have expressed similar complaints and have sent similar letters, often with no reply, or a very inadequate one. I suggest you respond to this as soon as possible, as I will not be purchasing any Hagen products until I have recieved a satisfactory answer, and will be urging other consumers to take this same action. I will send you more emails like this one, as many as it takes, until I see this horrible product disappear from stores for good.

[hr width='40%']

And here is what they sent:

Dear Trystian,

Thank you for taking the time to send us your opinion on the sale of our goldfish kits. We take your input seriously and will assess what we can do to inform our potential clients who wish to keep goldfish responsibly.

Sincerely,

--
Nathalie Bourassa
Représentante des consommateurs
Consumer Representative
Rolf C. Hagen Inc.

I think your chances of stopping hagen are just as slim as stopping people from selling goldfish for small setups.

I got started in fishkeeping with a 5 gal tank with 3 comets in it at the age of 7. Im not sure I want to deny anyone else this hobby.

Who goes out and buys a 55 gallon tank for their kids for christmas? Not the average joe thats for sure.

if anything you should petition hagen to hand out goldfish care sheets with their new tanks so people know that their fish isnt going to last for ever in their small setups and that goldfish do need lots of room.

Anyway, I didnt want to really anger anyone here, Im just being a negative nancy saying you will have more chance of convincing the governments of the world into getting everyone to switch to solar powered cars.

"runs away to hide"

When Finding Nemo came out and thousands of the poor clownfish died at the hands of 10 year olds, I wasn't happy. I did some research, and I discovered that it's more than just killing clownfish, coral reefs were being destroyed to obtain these clownfish, and it was causing a great deal of destruction. I knew there was nothing I could do to erase the damage done, but I decided I could inform the public about the issue, and raise awareness.

So, I wrote an article about it. I handed it in as a research report at school, I put it up on a number of websites, I sent copies of it to a good number of people over the internet, and apperantly word got around (be it through me or another source, all three stores in this city that sell clownfish refused to carry wild caught clownfish in their stores after Finding Nemo was released).

My article may be a bit old, but here it is:

'Nemo Effect': The Environmental Impacts of Finding Nemo


The children's movie Finding Nemo has made the clownfish a very popular pet; with clownfish in high demand, Asian fishermen are now using sodium cyanide to stun clownfish and many other fish on the reefs in order to catch them - this disrupts the ecosystem and causes a chain reaction that destroys much of the ocean that we depend on. The sodium cyanide kills the coral and about half of the fish, and all of the fish that do survive the trip to the pet store are already unhealthy before the customer purchases them. Efforts are being made to discourage the use of sodium cyanide in fishing practices. This problem, in whole, has been dubbed the “Nemo Effect.”

Many movies have made different pets popular in the past, some of which are Babe, Dr. Doolittle, and 101 Dalmatians. “Probably every [animal] shelter in the world cringes when a pet gets hot in the movies, on TV, or in a commercial. We know that demand for that animal will skyrocket,” said Kathy Bauch, a worker the Humane Society of the United States. (CNN) Finding Nemo is another one of those movies that made a pet popular; this time, clownfish were the victims.

A recent estimate by UNEP (United Nations Environmental Programme) says, “2 million people worldwide keep household aquariums, creating a $300 million industry.” These 2,000,000 aquarists acquire their saltwater fish in different ways than their freshwater fish; while most freshwater fish are raised on fish farms, 20,000,000 saltwater fish are harvested from oceans each year.

To catch reef dwelling fish, fishermen add sodium cyanide to the reef's water in an attempt to stun the sea creatures; this often kills corals and many of the other organisms, including many of the fish that they intended to catch (Verrengia). “Indonesia exports approximately 900,000 stony corals each year. Fiji is the primary supplier of live rock and the second largest exporter of stony coral, with a trade that has doubled or tripled in volume each year for the past five years. In 1997, more than 600 metric tons of live rock was harvested from Fijian reefs, 95 percent of it destined for the United States.”

Sodium cyanide fishing is one of the most economic, and one of the most destructive, methods for catching reef dwelling fish, and presently more than 10 major exporting countries use the technique. Sodium cyanide, one of the most harmful toxins known, usually only stuns the fish, but it destroys coral reef ecosystem by poisoning and killing that were not intended to be killed, including corals and crustaceans. “The lucrative U.S. market for coral organisms may be the major force driving destructive fishing practices in the Indo-Pacific region.” Data on these practices is very hard to acquire because it is illegal to use these methods, and thus fishermen are secretive about their fishing procedures. Sodium cyanide fishing is so destructive, that only 6% of reefs around Indonesia are flourishing. (Bruckner) Sodium cyanide is also toxic to divers. (Aronoff)

The oceans are all connected. What we do in one part of the world affects the rest of the world. When a reef in Fiji is contaminated with sodium cyanide, that sodium cyanide will eventually contaminate every drop of water in the oceans worldwide. As humans, we rely on the oceans for food and rain; aquatic plants produce about 70% of the oxygen that we breathe. (Living Sea)

There are a lot of things we don't know about the ocean yet, only a small percentage of the ocean's depth has been explored. On most deep sea dives new species of marine life are found. If the ocean is poisoned, many species of marine life may become extinct, and we won't even know it. This may be why Richard Wilbur said, “All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of what we know.” The video, The Living Sea, made a point, “We can't protect what we don't understand.” (Living Sea)

“The Marine Aquarium Council (MAC), on behalf of hobbyists, the industry, and some environmental groups, is developing a certification scheme that will track an animal from collector to hobbyist. The goals of MAC are to develop standards for quality products and sustainable practices and a system to certify compliance with these standards and to create consumer demand for certified products.” (Bruckner) Alexander Gould, the voice of “Nemo,” discourages sodium cyanide fishing. He has partnered with the Marine Aquarium Council in an attempt to save reefs. “The Marine Aquarium Council makes sure aquarium fish are captured in a kind manner,” Alexander says. “MAC does this to protect the coral reef, because if the coral is gone, the fish will be gone. The whole world depends on coral and fish, and they depend on each other.” (Aronoff)

In the movie, Finding Nemo, Nemo and his friends plot an escape to the ocean via a flushing toilet. (CNN) This has led many naive children that only wish to, “Set Nemo free,” to flush their clownfish down a toilet. (Verrengia) In reality, toilets do not lead to the ocean, but to sewers filled with waste, chemicals, and water that doesn't contain the salt that clownfish need to live. An operator of a California water plant said that the chances of a flushed clownfish making it to the ocean are “essentially zero to none.” (CNN) Paul Holthus, president of the Marine Aquarium Council, says, “Parents who already have aquariums need to explain to their children that the fish will not survive if they are flushed.” (Verrengia)

Clownfish are quite expensive, normally they cost $10 to $20, but around the time of the release of Finding Nemo, prices went up to $30 to $45; and those prices are just for the fish only, the tank and setup is quite expensive also. (I was unable to find a source that explained why clownfish prices doubled around the time of the movie’s release, so I am not sure that prices rose because the pet stores were either profiteering, or because supply could not meet demand) If a child wanted a “Nemo Fish” some parents would spend about $100 to buy them the minimum requirements to keep a clownfish, or they could spend about $1000 for a tank similar to the one in the movie. Usually the child would either take care of the fish until the novelty wears off, then let the fish die of poor water conditions; (Pilieci) flush the fish in an attempt to “Free Nemo;” (Verrengia) or successfully keep the fish until it dies of a natural death about ten years later. Most children who are given clownfish choose to take care of the fish until the novelty wears off.

It is much more difficult and costly to maintain a saltwater tank than a freshwater tank, therefore some parents bought their children less expensive, freshwater alternatives to clownfish. One of the substitutes is goldfish because they live in fresh water, are relatively inexpensive, and are easy to care for. If someone decides to get clownfish for their child, instead of goldfish, 30 gallons is an appropriate tank size, but 10 gallons is the minimum size. (Clarke) Smaller saltwater tanks that are 15 gallons or less are called “Nano Reefs.” (not “Nemo Reefs&#8221 Evaporation is a major problem in Nano Reefs because it causes changes in salinity too quickly. Evaporation occurs much more rapidly from saltwater, than freshwater. In a 15 gallon tank, about a half of a gallon of water would evaporate each day, causing major changes in salinity. Water must be added every day to keep the salinity at a reasonable level. One of the alternative fish, the goldfish, can easily be kept in a 30 gallon freshwater tank. (Pilieci) Also, salinity changes due to evaporation are not a major problem with freshwater, because there is no salt.

The “Nemo Effect” is a chain reaction of events that started with the release of the movie Finding Nemo. It has led to the destruction of coral reefs through overharvesting of tropical fish, particularly clownfish. (I am not exactly sure how much damage was done to the reefs because of the ‘Nemo Effect’; I was unable to find a source that provided that piece of information) This research report will be published in Fish Profiles Magazine; in publishing this report I plan to make the public aware of the “Nemo Effect,” and I hope that readers will do some research on clownfish before they choose to purchase them so they will know how to take care of them.
_________________


Works Cited

Aronoff, Simon; Pérez Robert. At Nine Years Old, Finding Nemo Actor Has Found His Cause - Coral Reef Conservation and a Responsible Fish Trade. [Online] 28 May 2003. <http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/docs/library/2/release_2mac_alexander.pdf>
I acquired information about conservationist’s views on the ‘Nemo Effect.’


Verrengia, Joseph. 'Don't Flush!' Conservationists warn as 'Finding Nemo' goes global. [Online] 1 October 2003. <http://www.plantesave.com/viewstory.asp?id=4351>
I used information from this source about the usage of sodium cyanide in fishing.


The Living Sea. Videotape. Macgillivray Freeman Films.
Several quotes that I used were in this video. I also used various facts about the ocean in general from this source.


'Nemo' Fans Net Fish Warning. CNN. Monday, 30 June 2003
I used several quotes from this source, and I used information about other movies that had an impact on the pet industry.

Bruckner, Andrew. New Threat to Coral Reefs: Trade in Coral Organisms. [Online] <http://www.nap.edu/issues/17.1/bruckner.htm>
I used information about cyanide fishing from this source.

Pilieci, Vito. “Stop Killing Nemo.” Calgary Herald. June 30, 2003.
I used general information about the ‘Nemo Effect’ from this source.

Clarke, Matt. Keeping Nemo. [Online] <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk>
I used information about keeping clownfish from this source.

________________________________________________



Good luck getting Hagen and Petsmart to change their ways, you'll need it

Who goes out and buys a 55 gallon tank for their kids for christmas? Not the average joe thats for sure.

Which is why I tell customers at pet stores, when I'm shopping, to not buy their children goldfish. I explain (when the "associate" is not around), the basic issues surrounding goldfish care, including tank required. I then go on to suggest what great starter fish zebra danios are.

- I could make a hobby of wandering fish stores and setting people on the right path in subtle ways. A clerk panicked once when I started to talk about the nitrogen cycle and how they couldn't stock their new tank all at once. However, the clerk was relieved when I walked over and introduced them to the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kits and New and Improved Cycle.

It does seem the tone of this person at Hagen has changed from earlier emails I've seen from her that are posted. I think Hagen needs to continue getting hit with emails and threats to boycott their products.

I got no bites on my article sent to my local papers, but I violated a rule and didn't know it. They won't consider articles sent to multiple publications and I listed two in the "to" field. I'll have to try again.

My message was simply an urging to parents to learn before they buy and to consult places like Fishprofiles.com a family-freindly site with people waiting to help them get started and keep their fish healthy and their children happy.