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Good man. Just be polite.. if you have nothing good to say, don't say it. That's what the report post option is for

IMO this thread is pointless. Even if you came up with a set of guidlines how are you going to police it?

Cranky posts should be brought to the attention of the moderators and let them deal with it.

In the words of the Great Oz (garyroland) GOOD GRIEF!

Mike

your scaring them off because everyone here screams at each other. And yells at new people that dont know what they are doing.

One would wonder if the Rainman has the time to make extensive posts like that when does he take care of his three thousand tanks...
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I answered my last stocking question awhile back when the guy told me to "drop dead".

--garyroland.

Acid has made some good points there. I suspect removal of the post count would fix alot of that. I've been a member of FP for just on 12 months now and have a relatively low post count than others with half the time as a member because I only post if I have a valid answer and I check out the site daily. Maybe remove the post count and bring back the "views"?

Well firstly, no one should answer ANY questions or quieries, without either experience, or extensive and legitimate knowledge specific to the question/quiery. And, to be able to back up their answers with substantial evidence. Anecdotal evidence does not count towards anything! Just causes trouble in the end!

*UP ON THE SOAP BOX*
Nothing angers me more, than to read a thread, and see 15 people answers to it. And out of those 15 people that answer it, none have ever owned the equiptment in question, nor know someone personally that has either, or had the said fish in question, bred said fish in question, nor read anything about said query, ect ect ect. But they have an answer to the question. When someone asks a question of, "has anyone used such and such product, and what do you think?" This question is directed at those that have used it. Not someone that heard they are no good, or they don't work well, ect ect. So don't answer those questions! If someone asks, "Has anyone kept and bred such and such fish?" Then only answer if you have kept them. Don't go telling these persons you heard this or that, or you think this and that! Leave the answering to those that have actually kept that fish, ect. As this is how the question was asked, to those that have! Now if you have a link to an article or some kind of study that was done, then fine, feel free to post the link, or links. This is acceptable, but antecdotal evidence is not. It just causes problems and hurt feelings.
The same goes for stocking purposes as well. For instance, I have a 125 gal, that is currently housing 40 5 inch long Lake Malawi cichlids, of which 30 will be 10+ inches in another 6-10 months (they are going in their own tanks as soon as they start pairing up). Oh, almost forgot, there are 4 synos that are 8-12 inches in there as well. Is this overstocked? It depends on who you are. As the ammonia is always 0, the nitrItes are always 0, and the ntrAtes never get above 20. It is highly filtered with multiple biowheels, and heavy water changes done weekly. There has never been any disease in that tank, the fish never fight, and they are all very healthy, and active. All but a couple are open water fish, so they don't really have any territories at the moment. Now, are you going to tell me my tank is overstocked? I dare you! Because if you do, you better not only have experience with these fish, and the reasons to back it up. As well, you better have data that I can personally read to back it up as well. And the data will have to as well, be directly related to these fish, and not fish in general.

Yes, many newbies don't understand the concept about the cycle, nor about overstocking tanks. But, what we all have to and must remember, not all fish are the same either. And, there are many ways around the "idea" of overstocking a tank. Instead of getting onto newbies about being overstocked and telling them all their fish are going to die, why not tell them a better way to do things. Or, if they do have some understanding, like about the way the cycle works and all, explain to them how they can keep their tank overstocked with the fish they may already have. I know the lfs in my area will take fish in trade, or even take them back when they get to large, but hey, many won't! So don't come down so hard on newbies for the stocking of their tanks, when they have already done so. As they may not be able to change it right away. So instead, try helping them to work it out, with things like maybe more filterization, more hiding places, ect ect ect. Just like another idea I know of; a friend of mine (has as much experience as me), has a 12 inch fish that is about 3-4 inches diameter in a 10 gal tank at his office. Is his tank overstocked? Actually no, it is not. The fish in question is a frogfish, that never moves. 99.99% of the time, it just sits there and breaths. It gets fed about once a month, because this is all they eat in the wild. It gorges itself at that time, and actually won't eat for about 3 weeks, even if you tried to feed it. The waste, or output of this fish, is extremely low. An emperor 200 is the only filter on the tank. He does water changes about every month, of 25-50%. His ammonia is always 0, nitrItes always 0, and nitrAtes never exceed 20.

One more thing that is the most goofy and very irratating, is answers that just summerize what someone else has taken the time to fully explain. If I spend the time, making a 1000 word, multiple paragraph, detailed explination, don't come behind me and post a two sentence summery of what I have just explained. It does not make you look intellegent, but just the opposite. As anyone reading it, will just look at your answer, and think, "That's just what the person above him said." The summery does nothing more than make you look silly, as well as take up space. This is usually just to a couple of people that are trying to get their post count up, so they look like they know what they are talking about. But, there are just as many people that have low post counts, that I highly value oppinions from. Now if you are already involved in a long thread, and someone explains something you agree with, then by all means, state that you are in agreement, or that you concure with someone. If I post a query, I would rather see just 3 answers that are detailed, and have or have not links in them, than to see 3 detailed explanations with another 150 mixed in answers of "yes" or "it won't work", or "like he said", or a summery of the detailed explanation.

So in the end, don't answer any queries or questions if you don't have the knowledge, and/or experience to back up your answer. And don't answer stocking questions, if you don't have the extensive knowledge and/or experience about the fish in question. As you may end up in an arguement that you cannot win.

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There is always a bigger fish...

There are two types of newbies. The ones who want to learn and the ones who don't. Obviously those who want to learn have gone to the trouble of joining FP and start asking questions. It's these people we should do our utmost to help and refrain from getting angry at them for doing things the wrong way . We must remember they are learning and besides when do you stop learning? The other half you will never meet. They'll have their tanks in the "for sale " section of the newspaper after a few months. I remeber being a newbie once and to think what I did with the first few fish I ever bought horrifies me but now (thanks to folks on FP and a great LFS) my fish are the happiest this side of the planet! It's unfortunate that not everyone will go to the effort that all on FP do to ensure happy lives for their fish. It is true that some people who do join forums won't listen but all you can do is offer your experience and hope for the best. Maybe we should start FP hitsquads in problem area that go in and confiscate tanks?

Last edited by james747 at 02-Jan-2005 17:26

I know what John is talking about. I've seen sites that basically make new people either newbs or nOObs. Newbs being new people, but willing to learn and admit to their mistakes. nOObs, however, are new but will not admit they are wrong, will not listen to experienced people, and basically make the experienced people REALLY REALLY MAD.

As someone who has lurked for a while now, I have noticed that there is a fine line between honesty and nastiness. Though I rarely see the line crossed. There has been a few cases of new members leaving due to disputes.

There are many forums where people let new memebers get away with overstocking or not cycling, and it seems that they do it out of fear of offending or scaring off the new member. We, OTOH, cannot do this. We must be honest with the person. Im not saying that we need to be snarky, but it is imperitive that a fishkeeper know what is wrong with his tank and why. There have been many new members who have refused to take our advice, and i think it only proves that some people do not want to hear they are wrong. We cannot help them, because they do want help and truely do not want what is best for their fish.

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Lots of message boards have this problem with newbs, not just this one.

The biggest problem I see, is that while us regulars are trying to be helpfull, and have the fish in mind. We ARE too harsh.
Just state the facts, say you enjoy "that type" of fish, and wish them good luck with their progess.