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Yup, theyre extinct. A damn, crappy shame , and most likely eminently preventable. Makes me very sad that humans cant get their crap together better than this. Biggest no brainer screw-up since we wiped out the thylacine.

Thats it, the species is lost. Makes me feel ashamed to be human.Over the floods, everything, war's etc, this makes me feel the saddest inside of all of the disasters of recent times. A species so ancient should not have been exterminated by the hollow greed of man, when precisely is there gonna be a limit called on the harm we do without even thinking, when will we be accountable?

Lets hope someone has the sense to try cloning some. The chinese are big on that after all...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292932,00.html

Ah geez that's so awful.

I just hope that the world takes notice now & works to prevent any more losses

the world notices, but only a small portion of it actually cares. i saw that article the other day and it's still very hard to believe...

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Weren't they pretty certain it was extinct last year when they led that big expedition up the Yangtze and didn't find any individuals? Or has it just been officially dclared now? Whatever the case is, it's a terrible, unreversible loss and just goes to show how much of the world's population doesn't give a crap about Earth's biodiversity. Let's just hope the Chinese Alligator doesn't follow suit (at least there are captive populations of this species, but their numbers are still falling in the wild).

Speaking of not giving a crap about the environment, there's been an ongoing local story regarding Point Reyes National Seashore. The park service is finally about to begin a long-term project to cull the invasive Axis and Fallow Deer that overrun the park, destroy native microclimates, and outcompete native Black-Tailed Deer and endangered Tule Elk, but Nancy Pelosi and her liberal army are making a last ditch attempt to have that overturned and let the non-native deer continue to take over.

I certainly hope, for the sake of the local environment, that she doesn't succeed with her agenda of killing off native species so that invasive ones can thrive. Also, the meat from the culled deer would be donated to charities and homeless shelters, so it looks like Pelosi hates the environment and homeless people.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

thats interesting ive been to point reye and i saw that it was overpopulated with deer I didn't know they were invasive. Looking at how its going to homeless i really don't see whhy anybody would want to stop it, it helps nature and society.

-Vincent

Yes, the species was pretty much extinct last year. Yeah, it sucks, but keep in mind that it's pretty damn easy to talk the talk in an AC'd apartment which you pay for via a nice desk job which pays relatively handsomely. I'm not saying these points are valid, but yeah.

Also, don't be raggin' on the Pelosi. She 'da man.

http://science.slashdot.org/science/07/08/12/0129236.shtml

May interest you.

Well yeah , I always figured there would be a few still around, but its a social animal and there needs to be some genetic diversity in individuals for the species to survive. If they arent extinct yet, they soon will be. Its a tipping point in the population reached around 50 years, and then theres just a cycle of steady deaths. Its over for these poor guys. What chills me also, is how many species are in the same position. Were leaving conservation far, far, too late, we just cant run things as close as we do. There should have been conservation and breeding efforts totally concentrated for the survival of the species decades ago, and many other species are in a similar state as we speak. Much more needs to be done, and sooner.

i don't want to turn this into a political thread but let me say that nancy pelosi sucks my butt. i'm glad she's not my rep and i hope she loses her seat next year.

anyway, i think that the biggest problem with the preservation of species has to do with the fact that we can't make people fully understand the connectedness of all life to the point where they see why these ecosystems need to be saved. especially in a country which has grown as quickly as china has, it's extremely difficult to convince people that they should change their ways when they depend on so many destructive habits to make their living.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

And after the US and the UK dumped all over everyone else in our quest for material gains and a good quality of life and standard of living, causing huge environmental damage, what right do we to tell the Developing World that they cannot do the same to achieve the same for their people?

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I like to think that whoever designed marine life was thinking of it as basically an entertainment medium. That would explain some of the things down there, some of the unearthly biological contraptions

causing huge environmental damage, what right do we to tell the Developing World that they cannot do the same to achieve the same for their people?

Well, first and foremost, we're hypocrites. Second and second foremost, we like being the most powerful nations in the world and will do/say just about anything to stay that way. But I suppose the PC answer is that we now know how fragile ecosystems are and how one species can affect so many others, and they must be preserved. Or something like that.

Its not really a right, its kind of a necessity. We have to tell them as well as curbing our own excesses at the same time. Capitalism is failing the planet with overconsumption, and as we commit to change, no matter how reluctantly , we have to convince others to do the same. Perhaps even forcefully if necessary. We must move together, if we dwell on past sins we will never get anything done, we have to be united in a common objective for the future, hypocritical or not.

Giving someone grace to destroy planet earth is not , and has never been an option. With awareness comes responsibility, we have to make ourselves and others fully aware, and fully responsible. Hypocritical or not. Such things have to be moved from. The pot can call the kettle black when the kettle cant see. It might need to know

Time for us all to go for a bit of a polish

Perhaps its possible for an enlightened race to skip the stupid capitalism bit? Just cos were saturated in it to the point we see little else, doesnt mean they will be. Not if we help them. Surely its possible to live without greed as a nation, I mean , jeez, I get persecuted for smoking, and i'll at least have the grace to die young without complaining, im pretty sure youre allowed to give people a lot more flack than that for destroying the planet?

If it's not a right, but a necessity, then should we be spreading the technology across the Developing World to skip the developmental step where states become dependent on heavy industry? A move that would trigger the collapse of the current economic system?

How do you free yourself from a system when leaving it could trigger this destruction of everything you have gained? Given that most major world power-systems have fallen to Capitalism, how can states transition away from Capitalism? Where can they go?

ETA: If your state's citizens are dying from poverty, surely they're more important than wild animals? How can the Developed World tell Less Developed States that they have to sacrifice their own people, when we will not do the same?


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I like to think that whoever designed marine life was thinking of it as basically an entertainment medium. That would explain some of the things down there, some of the unearthly biological contraptions

Wow, good show tiny.

Limit cap on population growth for starters. It will have to be done and since america and the UK and the states use 4 times as many resources to raise a child at least , often several hundred times more than a third world country we will have to suffer the biggest population limits if we cant compromise on resources, or personal expectation of financial gain.

To get the planet back in order a lot of the rights people are used to will have to go afly, thats why most people are dreading it. Governments will have to nationalise most industries and corporations or there will have to be crippling economic laws that prevent depreciation of currency and the free market will basically have to end. Competition creates greed economically and that too will have to end.

Population growth and profiteering will largely have to end. This does not mean however that new technologies cant be explored etc. When nobody comes up with alternatives though, you can only stop the harm being done, and the only way to do that, is change corporate america and the world, many companies will simply have to cease to exist. Freedoms will have to be lost. Im not a believer in inequality, I think we should all have to dedicate ourselves to a minimal standard of living in unison.

Freedom is a luxury for a few, when a planet isnt overpopulated. When billions more people live on a planet than the environment can support, and cant abstain from mass profiteering, and greed is the only goal, freedom will be lost by necessity. You wont be able to live as you choose , because to choose other than living a controlled and meagre existence will mean death for everyone.

Thats why the west is going to run it right up to the wire, and why thousands of species will be lost, why the ecosystems planet will be harmed quite likely beyond all repair. People touting freedom in the face of armageddon just gets you killed, wars will be fought to maintain our lifestyle, big wars, world wars, all because we cant let go of greed. It solves nothing.

Better get used to the loss of your liberties people. Its gonna happen in your lifetime, either that or the earth will cease to be a good place to live, for anyone.You'll all be able to sit and watch it onyour bigscreen lcd tv's , that it until the power gives out... This isnt a fairy tale or fantasy anymore , it is upon us. We'll either change the way we govern our personal aspirations ,business, industry, and global resource use and labour down to the last tack,and set up inviolate preservation areas throughout most of the planets inhabitable regions or were not gonna make it. The whole way we look as society, productivity and aspiration has been completely wrong, and we'll have to change down to the last child, and stop breeding too.

Everything will depend on westerners taking a look at about 90% of everything we use in our daily lives and simply not using it anymore. We will expect the east to do the same, and if the chinese find their version of the technical revolution stilted somewhat, or kept behind closed doors for the gain ogf the planet rather than for a single species (humanity) then so be it. The goal will be to get us living to the same standard globally, not poverty, but greater social responsibility, inclusive of all species.

Governments govern in favour of humanity over the ecosystem because they are weak . End of story. Because of the democratic process favours those who promise gain rather than hardship to shore yourselves against future loss. We will cheap-shot decision ourselves into the grave. Only governments with the testicular matter large enough to do whats good for the people rather than what the people desire will do any good.

We are already starting wars over resources, its happening now. Africa is being prepped for takeover by every rich nation on earth, and the east and west will argue over the spoils of that before turning on each other. All because of our resistance to radical change, and our individual, personal and collective greed. Much as we need to stop our own greed, we have to find a way to stifle it in others before it gets started.

The unpleasant truth of the matter is that running under current governmental systems , if world poverty is ended by contemporary means, the planet will die. We cant sopport the billions in a way that equals our lifestyle, and we should be very much afraid of them reaching it either on their own or with our help.

We need something altogether more radical, and that something is probably radical governance and loss of freedom. Rigorous environmental control and the complete reorientation of everybodys capitalist goals.

We need population control. What we know of existing states, countries , and divides will change, our national identities are prohibitive to survival , and will have to go, we will have to sacrifice tradiotion and identity for survival, and its going to be the shock of a lifetime for most people, but it will ensure at least, that you get a lifetime. Personally I will gladly give up some of what I have , we often overcomplicate our lives anyway, and so many westerners are so divorced from real life as to already be an intellectual irrelevance.

The change may be good for humanity in many ways, but we are still cripplingly afraid of it. We have outstripped the planet with our growth and collective and personal inefficiency and there is a heavy price to be paid. Somehow though, I dont think the average american will want to hear this, and will probably not recognise it as a fact that has to be acted upon until their children are fighting for food in the streets and the world outside your window is a sterile , scorched hell-hole. By then of course it will be far too late.

We can at the very least begin our progression to newer and better things by perhaps not defending the old quite so much, and perhaps by being more willing and open- minded enough to try something else. Our current way of living is indefensible, and other nations should not be aspiring to it. After all, how many of us does it make truly happy? We are all slaves to the system in one form or another.

Nobody needs to be a billionairre at the cost of a devastated country, or thousands of starving children, or devastated envoronments and extinctions of animals. Some people, especially americans and the english people might need that particular message shoved up their butt on a pineapple.

We have to let go of how we have lived to date , and do whatever is necessary to stop other nations trying to live as we do now. Help them make the leap to whatever we have to do next without consuming as much as we already do. Mutual promises and help might get us there. The choice is simple, get onside with this process or die. We are in a situation where in terms of environmental damage its actually less damaging to nuke a city than let it continue developmentally unhindered into full capitalism.

How can we? How can we not? Since when was there an alternative, or were we waiting for alien intervention or something? We all have to commit to getting onside with environmentalism at every level, its not some hippy idea, its a life or death idea. The first step will have to be mandatory birth control for every nation on earth, irrelevant of creed, colour, or religion. In the modern age, the right to breed is exactly the same as the right to kill others and damage the planet. Until we socially and econically get ourselves together, that is the absolute minimum step. If we cant even manage that comparatively small intellectual effor tand level of responsibility, were doomed. Contraversial as it may sound, its gonna be reality.

Resistance is futile

Anything else is just hoping the problem will go away. It wont.

Mad max, here we come! I never was diplomatic enough to do politics. Im a weights and measures man, you gotta do what you gotta do. Sod peoples sensibilities , emotions and preferences. When it comes down to it, life or death, if theres a sane bone in your body, you shut the hell up with whinging and live.Do whatever it takes.

Globally at the moment the political scene is like watching the peoples front of judea meeting in monty pythons life of brian. We are having meetings about whether we should have meetings about saving the planet.

Volunteer needed to write "romans go home" on a colisseum wall in letters ten feet high.

"Brian!" "Anybody see a Brian anywhere?" Were with ya brother!

Oh god, somebody help me down off this cross.