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As someone who works in the mental heath field, I would recomend that you see a Dr. who specializes in mental health. People with skin problems see a dermatologist, people with foot problems see a podiatrist, why souldn't you see a specialist for your treatment?
Second, although it is very important to learn as much as you can about a diagnosis, be careful not to self diagnose. Things like Bi-Polar can take a long time to correctly diagnose. There are lots of things that have 90% the same symptoms, but the remaining 10% is the difference between failed and successful treatment. Convincing your self of the wrong problem can have terrible side effects on treatment. There may be dis-trust between you and your doc, and you might work your self into having symptoms you realy don't. "The article says I should be feeling (insert symptom here), well... sure, I geuss I feel that way, I mean after all I am (insert medical term here)", kind of thing.
Also, NEVER put your self down for who you are. If you are a Bi-Polar hard to be around person, be the best damn Bi-Polar hard to be around person you can.
Knowing you need help and doing something about it is the most responsible and caring thing you do for your self and every one you love.
Finaly, never do med adjustments on your own. Realy bad things can happen when today's medications are mis-used. I've worked with people who can be the most care-free guy in town, then after thinking they no longer need meds turn into angry, throw punches at the drop of a hat, do any thing they can to hurt you kind of dangerous people. I have many job related injuries to back that up!

Good luck with all treatments (if any) that may come your way!

Theresa, you're not alone It can and does get better though, even if it takes a long time, hang in there.

I have been "depressed" as long as I can remember. I'm a survivor of incest and sexual abuse that started at a very young age and continued for 10 years of my life. It is only now that I am actively healing from the scars and I'm really doing great, all things considered. So far the diagnosis is agoraphobia, Double depression - dysthymic disorder and major depression, posttraumatic stress disorder, generalized anxiety and other anxiety *issues*. . . On the physical side of things, I was diagnosed with endometriosis at 16, have really severe migraines and am going through diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome. Whew. On the plus side I am living!

I am taking Effexor XR (popular med on these boards eh ), 190 mg/day for now, slowly being titrated up to 300 mg over the next while. The side effects can be brutal at times but it really works amazingly well for depression and anxiety. At 150 mg I crashed on it, was doing GREAT for a few months and then suddenly felt like I was worse off than before I started. My doc says that can happen sometimes on SSRI/SNRI's but that a higher dose will usually get patients back on track. Apparently at lower doses effexor is very similar to an SSRI, it takes a high dose to really get dopamine and norepinephrine working in the synapses. So far I am doing very well. I have to take the dose increases slowly, as each one brings the side effects that I had when I first started taking it back, but they DO fade over time.

The reason my docs are looking at a CFS diagnosis is because while the depression and anxiety and all that is getting much better, I am still dealing with a lot of CFS type symptoms and they're thinking there's more to it.

There is always a lot of talk about the benefits of taking medications. Personally for me it's not an issue because without medication I would either be institutionalized or dead. On the other hand I think it is important to understand that there is no *miracle pill* for any mental illness. Some people are able to overcome depression without medication, that's great, and it's very important to weigh the benefits of taking anything with the problems that come with it. It's really foolish to assume that any medication is automatically going to make you wake up and be a happy person. Medication WILL NOT do that for you, the most it can give you is a bit of a chemical boost, the rest is up to you. I think a lot of people are given medication before they properly understand what it is meant to do. The best advice I can give is to learn as much as you can about your illness so you can make informed decisions with your doctor and take an active role in your own treatment.

Second, professional help is REALLY necessary. I can't comment on your GP but I have never met any that really had enough knowledge to treat mental health issues as well as I liked. I have a great psychiatrist that treats me with a good combination of cognitive-behavioural (talk) therapy AND medication. I really think that's the best way to go, medications can be omitted if you really don't need them but good counselling is almost always necessary to really heal. That decision is up to you but it's really important to make them with the help of a good doctor.

A lot of the work is going to fall on you, too. Do your homework. I am a believer in the idea that healing from mental illness requires a complete life makeover to really be successful, that comes down to diet, rest, relaxation, counselling, meditation, yoga, just general wellness and whatever combination works for you. There are certain vitamins and things (babel mentioned B) that you may also want to check into with the advice of your doctor that can help. A HOLISTIC healing approach is the only way to go in my opinion, you need to treat body mind and soul together to really see improvement.

Sometimes you will have setbacks and they are heartbreaking. All I can say is hang in there and TALK TALK TALK when you start to feel really desperate. I have nearly done some very desperate things to myself when at my worst. In an illness with a higher mortality rate than many forms of CANCER it is important for us to all stick together so we don't lose anyone. My thoughts and prayers are with all of you, keep in mind we have all made it this far and we are all survivors. YAY mentally ill people.

Many people in your life will also not be supportive or understanding. A few posts mentioned that. Really, that is their problem not yours! Theresa, if your husband is not being supportive or taking the time to understand what your going through and help out, it will only cause him more frustration and anguish and it really doesn't help you either. That is his issue to deal with, if he's not willing to get it then it's not selfish to say "you're not helping. if you're not willing to help then don't contribute anything at all!" It's a really hard thing to say the first time but trust me it feels good afterward! Most people won't give up and leave you if you tell them how it is, some will but you're probably better off without them anyway. If he is willing to help, TELL HIM what you need. Pay attention to his needs sometimes too. I wish I had known that MONTHS/ YEARS ago. . . .

Anyway best of luck everyone, if you need someone to just listen to your ranting without being judgemental I'm usually around.

And in the need just to talk, it's nice to be able to get it off your chest even here. I hadn't mentioned my lowest moments even to my best friend...but when you know others are suffering from the same thing, it's easier to get it off your chest, and to let others know that they aren't alone...this in itself can be therapy to some of us...Heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Theresa: I've been dealing with such problems since I was about 13, probably about the time it really blossomed and became more evident.

I've be diagnosed with several different things. You'll see as you go along, different doctors will agree and disagree. As you study more, you'll find that all these "disorders" sound exactly like what you have, and you'll think that you have ALL of them.

The reality is, something is wrong, and there is no set in stone cure for everyone, no matter what title a doctor gives you, most people have to be creative in their own treatment to manage.

Some people do well with Therapy, Group Therapy, Medication or a combination of the above.

I have been on Lexapro for... over a year now, sometimes it's hard to stand back and look at yourself and determine if your really any better or not.

I can say, something which helped me early on, was just learning that I'm not insane, it's a real thing, these are real problems. Sometimes talking with people who have the same issues also helps me. I don't have anyone in real life with the same problems as me, but I have online buddies I'll talk to now and then.

Seeing both a good psychiatrist that specialises in mood disorders and seeing a good counsellor/psychologist are quite important here. Firstly, you need a good, firm diagnosis of your condition...something that will take some time and effort if it is done properly. Then, a course of treatment needs to be chosen, evaluated, adjusted, evaluated, etc. Not all people require medication, and of those that do, various meds (and combinations thereof) work quite dirrently on different people. If what you have is indeed Bipolar Effective Disorder, you are somewhat fortunate in that at this time, there are a lot more potential treatments available to you than even 5 years ago. Unfortunately, we still know very little about the actiual causes and functionality of this illness (one popular theory is that it is cause by mini-seizures within the brain caused by chemical imbalances, which is why many of the drugs prescribed for this condition are actually anti-convulsants), and it seems to have a number of variations on it that we understand even less.

Merry Christmas everyone. I don't know about you all, but I suspect the holidays are tough for many of you also. There's a lot of talk about drugs, and drugs are good and important. I've found that as helpful as drugs are, they just don't do it unless I go and talk to someone. Sometimes it's too expensive, but I luckily found a clinic that uses a sliding scale and only charges what people can afford for a session. They are so helpful. It took me a few tries to find someone that I'm comfortable talking with, but I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I look at it this way, everyone here knows how hard this disease is. It's worse than physical illnesses if you ask me, because it interfere's with my very will to get better. If my leg hurts, I take ibuprofen. But to me, it's like my leg hurts but I'm afraid to try to make it feel better. Anyway, I am supposed to be on Effexor, but I have sooo much trouble taking it regularly. It's horrible I know, but I think that part of me has lived with depression for so long, it kinda feels weird to feel better.
As my therapist mentioned, part of therapy is gaining power over feelings by simply understanding them better. Sometimes just knowing, expressing, or understanding a problem or feeling can make it better. That was an amazing thought (hers), and I think it's true. That's part of why I would also suggest going to a specialist. I've found it was helpful to get a diagnosis just so that I knew there was actually something wrong with me (not in the pejorative way). So once she told me the diagnoses (dysthymia, social anxiety, major depressive episodes) I immediately felt like it was something real, something tangible, something smart people know about and have strategies for fixing - with drugs or therapy - whichever.
I live in the city, and my therapist works in a doorman building. Every time I went there, I would have to tell the doorman I was going to the "XYZ counseling." It was awkward, until I realized it shouldn't feel any different than if I had an appointment for the dentist (who worked next door, and I had considered as an excuse for the doorman).
Suppose I've babbled long enough. Please see a specialist, look into your problems, and do as many different things as you can to fix them (food, drugs, therapy, hugging, etc).

Good Luck all. And love also! You can dooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!

P.S. - someone mentioned Lexapro as an anxiety drug. There have actually been a couple studies about the overlap between anxiety and depression. Recently I read that there are several genes that overlap in creating a predisposition to both. There's a good chance they are interrelated, and some smart, motivated people are working to figure out more about it (that always makes me feel better!).

P.P.S. - one question to you all. I'm not married yet and I'm still dating. I'm struggling with an ethical choice. I feel like I owe to whomever I'm dating (for more than a couple times) to tell them that I suffer from depression. Is this crazy? Do you think that's helpful? Do you think I should be telling them that? I feel like it's not fair to get someone committed to me and then drop it on them. Any thoughts would be great.

Second opinions are so so important!! It is not till you look back at how you used to feel that you realise that you left it too long to see a second, or third, or fourth opinion. As far as side effects go - all drugs will have side effects, but you need to find the medication with side effects that you can cope with, and are prepared to put up with. Talk to a chemist/pharmacist (get a few opinions). These people specialise in drugs and have good information on side effects, and possible alternatives. Tell your doctor what the pharmacist says and compare. Above all, don't give up on finding the right solution. Good luck.

Also be sure your doc is not mis-diagnosing you, so see that specialist!!!!!!!!!!!


I was told that the pain and being tired all of the time were just in my head YEESH! I was on lithium, wellbutrin, lexapro, effexor, etc I must have tried every drug they threw at me because I was told it was just me and they would make me feel better.

Went to a specialist. 2 Surguries later and a hysterectomy to remove severe advanced endometriosis and all I can say is thank goodness for second opinions!!!!! I didn't need to be on any of those. Life is back to normal.

*HUG!!!!!!!*

Koi

Empty chairs at empty tables, the room silent, forlorn.

Hi Theresa, I guess I'll join in on this circus of circus (no I'm not making fun of this, it is nothing to make fun of) I don't really know how long ago it was that I fell into depression, but I remember very specifically in high school trying to "fake it" so that everything appeared to be normal for me. I remember one time during this phase trying to solve the problem myself and fortunately didn't succeed. Continued to live with it, and deal with depression in the best way that I could. Sometimes it was severly rough, and I would just tend to go into my own personal hiding.

Then about 5 years ago, the obgyn put me on birth control pills. (I had refused to use them b/c of the drastic side effects from the past--talk about massive mood swings) I told him that I couldn't take them, b/c of previous times and how I couldn't deal with the mood swings again...he looked at me and laughed! And handed me a prescription to something similar to prozac to go along with the bcp. I tell him fine I'll try it out. Wow what a change!!! But, then my insurance after 6 months wouldn't cover them and at 125 a month I couldn't do it...I went back to the doctor and he put me on prozac/the generic...was doing great on it for about 3 more months then it was like the bottom fell out of everything and I was worse than ever...after trying to find help 3 years ago and not being able to find or ask for the help I needed I again tried the drastic means...again it didn't work. When I finally woke up 4 days later, I called the doctor and told him I needed help. It was actually the nurse and she told me to get in the office right then. I drug myself down there feeling worse than ever, and began Zoloft that day. The nurse called me twice a day, every day till I was feeling better.

I was on Zoloft of over a year, and then they too began to feel like I was sinking. But, before I could get to the worst end I called the doctor, and he reassigned me to Effexor. I felt as though I was in heaven. Just recently back in November I began to slide again and had my dose doubled. I love being able to survive, and not have to fake feeling good.

NO ONE should have to fake being in a decent mood!!!

I was in a relationship with a guy who figured if I just prayed more I would feel better, this is not true...

For those who are feeling desperate, don't take it into your own hands! Call the doctor immediately, and if he/she won't help call another one, there is something that they can do, and don't be afraid to reach out!!!

If anyone out here needs someone to talk to I'm willing to talk, I've been there, still taking Effexor, and don't know if I'll ever be off of them, but don't care as long as I can maintain some normalness.

Thanks, for listening ya'll, and there is hope, Heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Wow, I really appreciate all the replies, information and personal experiences.

I don't believe in self-diagnosis either. It's just that after all this time, changing meds a few times, symptoms getting worse and getting new symptoms I feel there's more to this than depression.

One time I got fed up with the side effects and quit taking my meds; won't do that again

I just want to know what's wrong with me and start doing whatever I have to in order to feel better. Yesterday I wrote the spouse an email starting with Imagine feeling... and going on with what my days are like and such. I got no reply He seems to feel this is my problem to deal with and take care of...yes, it is my problem but I don't think looking for support from your partner is wrong either.

Tuesday I see my family doctor, hopefully getting a referral for a psychiatrist. Not much I can do until then.

Thank you all again.


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There is water at the bottom of the ocean

I agree that the best person to see is one who specializes as stated above. A good psychiatrist, for example, will rule out all potential chemical or hormonal issues before even going any further. My sister needed help and an entire battery of bloodwork was ordered by her psychiatrist, for some of the things I mentioned, especially thryoid. Women, in particular, seem to have more thyroid issues than men.

It kind of came from experience that my brother had in dealing with his now ex-wife who is bipolar. Drugs like Prozac were just plain wrong for the condition. When one has bipolar it may be good for that time in which the depressive side is operating. But what about when the manic state returns - prozac is not for that. She had a lousy doctor at that time who tried the latest mood enhancing drug. Drugs like lithium were far more appropriate, but she wouldn't take it.

I must add that having been around one who is bipolar, my brother's ex had no ability to plan from one day to the next. She couldn't plan a child's birthday party. I don't know if this is typical or atypical, but it was quite apparent there was something wrong.

Incidentally, they are now divorced because she wouldn't help herself. He paid for psychiatric care and stood by her for 10 years, convinced she couldn't help it. Love drove him to near bankrupcy and to the near loss of the family home to try to help her. She turned violent, attacking him in his sleep and other times when he was defenseless. He now has a closed head injury as a result of one of those attacks. Then he finally realized that he couldn't allow the ship to sink in an attempt to save one passenger. She refused every medication that made her "normal" and pleasant to be around. Much like my buddy told me about having to take lithium for 30 years, many refuse to take their meds, as she did. She is the reason he shared his ordeal with me, stating that many will not take the tradeoff of side effects over losing the mood swings. He wanted me to see that there was hope for those who would help themselves and that taking medication was a choice. It's much like cancer patients take chemo to survive, despite the side effects. While my brother and ex share joint physical custody, he has primary responsibility for the kids and they spend like 80%+ of their time with him.

I too agree that self diagnosis is dangerous. Get three opinions on diagnosis and make sure that battery of bloodwork is performed in the process. Once you are convinced you have a firm diagnosis, join support groups, take the medications necessary to balance that which is not balanced, and move forward. Choose not to be a victim and be strong. Sometimes it takes doing the very things you don't want to do to overcome that which seems impossible. That can mean doing a load of laundry when you would rather be in bed, or taking the kids to a movie when you would rather be at home, or snuggling with the hubby when you would rather be left alone. It is how we take control over something that wants to control us. Everyone has a mountain to climb or an ocean to conquer and yours may seem very big at this time. You take one day at a time and sometimes one minute at a time. Strength comes not from others or from a bottle of pills, but from within. Afterall, it takes that strength to take the pills and to seek help, as my ex-sister-inlaw demonstrated that she could not and would not do. Recognition and education about any condition is the first set of steps required to beating the odds. In essence, we are our own mountains.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 24-Dec-2004 09:35

Corry Addict, you bring up a good point.
Family docs sometimes don't know all they should about meds. A medical student goes to medical school to learn how to diagnose a problem. Every few years or so a new "ground beaking" prescription comes out. It has new chemical combonations that work in ways that researchers don't realy understand. A general practitioner has little interest in taking the time to learn all about the new drug. He/she only knows that this it the latest thing to cure all of life's problems. The diagnosis hasn't changed one bit, but the "cures" have changed a lot. Again the point, any one who thinks that they may have some sort of mental health problem NEEDS to see a specialist.

Some times a med has a benificial side effect. Take Wellbutrin for example. In tests for it's anti-depressant effects it was noticed that volunteers who smoked before taking the drug no longer had the urge to light up. Bada-bing bada-boom, Zyban hit the market. The two are the exact same drug, but sold for different reasons. There are a lot of scripts that have many uses other than the one that the drug companys market them for. Depakote is another example. It is marketed for anti-seizure reasons, but many people take it for all kinds of mental health reasons.

Not to say that Theresa_M is on the right or wrong med, but I have to say again, a specialist is realy needed to make the best choices. I think Cory_Di kind of touched on this point in a general way. I would bet the docs she talked about weren't as educated in mental health as they could have been.
That being said, not all psych docs are created the same. At mt hospital, there is one doc that the staff hates to see treat adolescents. No one thinks he's dumb or any thing, but he just never take the time to realy know how to treat a kid.

I hope every one takes my info as an attempt to help. Some times the best thing for a person is the last thing they want to do. Please feel free to e-mail me with any qustions, coments, or chicken salad recipies.

Isn't Lexapro for anxiety? That't what I'm taking it for...

I am diagnosed with both depression as well as anxiety, though I'm currently not taking any meds for the depression.

But I have never heard of Lexapro being used as an antidpressant. If you aren't improving on it, maybe that's why. I've been taking it for over a year now, and it has helped immensely with my anxiety, but done nothing for the depression.

---

I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

Over a year ago my family doctor diagnosed me with 'depression' using a yes/no questionnaire. Since then I've been playing the anti-depressant game: try one, bad side effects, try another, etc etc. I'm currently on Lexapro.

I take medication only when absolutely necessary, I don't run to the doctor for every pain or cough. I have mood swings, so bad the past 6 months or so they've seriously affected my marriage. I've been doing research lately and I really think I have bipolar disorder. Besides the major mood swings I have trouble sleeping; I work nights which I'm sure doesn't help. Headaches almost daily, frequent upset stomach, sometimes I'm doing 10 things at once and others I have no energy to do anything. I often feel forgetful and all of this makes me feel out of control of my life and not like who I am.

I'm continuing with the Lexapro, although I really don't know if it's making a difference. I got a referral for a counselor two weeks ago, left three voice mails but haven't heard back from her. We're supposed to be moving next week-another big source of stress-so I guess I'll wait to find a counselor in the area we're moving to.

I apologize for the rambling-the spouse is leaving tomorrow for Xmas with his family, that's another story and big problem-and right now I feel like I have no where to turn for support. I do have my kids here until the 26th so that helps a lot.

I just wondered with the number of members here if anyone else is dealing with either depression or bipolar disorder.



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There is water at the bottom of the ocean

If it is bipolar and not straight depression, then you may not have the right meds.

An engineer I worked with confided in me that he had been on lithium for the past 25+ years for what they then called it - manic depressive. Now they call it bipolar. He admitted that it had side effects, but claims that many with the disorder won't deal with the side effects of most drugs. But, he said he persevered once he understood his illness and why he needed to take it. He credits it with saving his marriage and his job. He is taking it for life and recently retired.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11897747&dopt=Abstract

I do know th at if you have bipolar disorder and use certain drugs, I believe Prozac being one of them, it could be very bad. Bipolar goes between two extremes - manic state and depressed. Many such drugs only treat the one side.

My brother's ex is supposedly bipolar and had been on lithium, but wouldn't take it. She also uses pot (very bad, especially when mixing with the meds she was taking) and drinks (ditto). based on research my brother did, it is not uncommon for people with the condition to use other drugs and alcohol (trying to cope).

The first step is to recognize that something isn't right and it sounds like you are being logical about how you feel and are trying to deal with it .

One other thought is that it could be something hormonal or chemical. Too many doctors write things off as female stuff or to something psychological. It could very well be female stuff so get your blood tested very well.

I also highly recommend that you get a full battery of thyroid tests. They were ready to commit my mother after my dad died thinking she cracked. Turned out her Thyroid was off kilter. You don't want just one test. You want several done, including TSH, T3 and T4 and any others they are willing to do, including scans.

http://www.thyrocare.com/awareness/testing.htm

Many people thought to be bipolar, depressed or otherwise are having true chemical imbalances. Too many doctors will stop at a TSH test and not do the T3 or T4. Demand them. Also ask to see the numbers and have them explained. Some researchers are claiming that women do better when on the high side of normal, not the low side.

I too feel that, even if medication is necessary to help control symptoms of any disorder, a good psychiatrist can be helpful. But find one that will help YOU to help yourself. I dealt with a condition called agoraphobia for months after returning to the states from a foreign country (was in eastern europe for several years in a small community). I had panick attacks any time I tried to leave the house. No meds, no counselors were helping me and one day I decided to read up all I could on the disorder. Once I understood it, I knew that only I could help myself out of it by doing the very things that was causing the panic attacks. I joined a softball team to get me going because I figured it would distract me, and it did. I had many panic attacks, but figured it was better to die trying than to give in. I fought it and I won. That was over 20 years ago and it has not returned. I fired all of those pyschiatrists, counselors, etc., on the basis that all they did was listen. Not one provided me with any clues as to how I might help myself.

Best wishes and hang in there.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 23-Dec-2004 19:14

SSRI's rule. I too was on them for awhile and it was awesome...it was like someone took all of the weight off of my shoulders. It was such a happy time....

Well, an additional sudden 30lbs later I've decided I am the ruler of my universe and took myself off and I have been fine ever since. Mind over matter I tell ya.

I think most people use pills to just give that little break, that small gap in the feeling that lets you actually deal with the problem Thats the general intention anyhoo

The serotonin thing, yeah, that is a big problem. I'm on SSRIs for that, and that can be the root problem, but the pills still help you deal with the world in a better light

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Wow *remembers once again she promised not to help people*
I wasn't in any way dissing meds , those of you that know my relationship with someone else on the board should know better than that....what I was trying obviously not very well to say was that there is no "magic pill" IMU of mental conditons meds are really only the first step, sometimes one that needs to be continued for life. But just taking a pill is often not enough, and should be followed up with talk theapy either in a one on one situation or group talk.
If it's only a GP and family members that have done the diagnosis I'd highly urge you to try and get to a specialist as soon as you can. All you need is more stress from stressing out about a condition.
Theresa, I truly hope you get some answers on this.

^_^
Current [link=Contest Rules]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/44382.html?200412022138" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link][/font]

Yup, I am a prozac lady. I look at it this way. I have a chemical imbalance in my brain. I take medicine to make it better. No one ever looks at a diabetic and says, "Gee, they should just get over it." I have heard "Stop feeling sorry for yourself" so much it makes me wanna puke. Sorry folks, can't. It is impossible for me without my meds, so you just deal with it. I cannot produce more serotonin anymore than a diabetic can produce insulin. It really bugs me when people look down on those of us who are programmed for sadness. I have tried to look on the bright side. I have tried counseling, I have tried St. John's wort. Prozac is the only thing that works. Thank heaven's it went generic.

Was on prozac in high school, because I had trichotillomania. Have had severe bouts of depression all my life, including a phase of self harm. I didn't like the side effects of the prozac, and took myself off of it. A couple months ago I tried St. John's Wort, and that really gave me the boost I needed. Now I very rarely take it, things are really doing better for me. No more nervous breakdowns, no more panic/anxiety attacks...
by the way, martial arts really helped with the stress and depression, too.

I'm so adjective, I verb nouns!