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Yep, that's about what I've been planning so far. I still need to get a sponge cover for the filter, but I have plenty of time to do that.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Now we're getting somewhere! The fish that interest me off the bat are Corydoras davidsandsi, C. similis, C. sp. "Mazaruni", and C-35, an Aspidoras. The similis and davidsandsi are the most likely choices, and I think I'm going to end up with the similis. They're reputedly easy to breed (like the davidsandsi) and are pretty nifty fish. I will also order a new, recently-published book at a fairly low cost.

Now that I know the type of fish I'll be keeping, I suppose I can start setting up the tank.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

I have sand in my tank and loads of plants and theyre bright green, its a 25 gal with, erm let me count. 12 different plants, (ill take a picture later) I know its not exactly heavily planted but still quite a few plants. I have some sort of Java moss (thats the only plant I know the name of) A big broad eaved red one 2 big broad leaved green ones a small broad leaved green one (that the crab loves) Some tall grass like plants and a small thin leaved plant.

For Sand, all you have to do is rinse it in a bucket & do this prosedure a couple of times, till the water after rinsing is clear. It will cloud your tank a bit & don't run the filter for 24 hours, but it will be clear & you shouldn't have any problems.


http://www.geocities.com/s8xi5heh/classic_blue.html
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/s8xi5heh/my_photos

http://www.flickr.com/photos/corydoras/
Member of the Malta Aquarist Society - 1970.
http://www.maltaaquarist.com

Heh, that'll explain it. I'm particularly interested in the Corydoras similis, C. sterbai, and L260 plecs from the site. If I don't buy from there, I may try [link=http://Alloddballaquatics.com]http://Alloddballaquatics.com" style="COLOR: #808080[/link]. It's more expensive and Mr. Bodrock doesn't carry plecos, but they had a few interesting Corydoras species on the list when I last asked. He also was very polite when corresponding, so I'm inclined to view the business favorably.

Sand will probably be more trouble than it's worth, but I really want to try the look. If I go with Corydoras, it should be easier since there won't be huge fish kicking it up or decorating with long strings of poop.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

I think Julie's on vacation right now.

EDIT: Sand may not be the greatest idea in breeding tanks. It doesn't trap debris as well as it could and is just a pain to maintain in general.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 30-Dec-2005 22:52

All righty, I picked up some of the goods tonight. Ordered a basic iron stand, got a two bulb strip light (a mere thirty-four watts), Stealth 100 heater, the glass lid, a Penguin something filter, thermometer, extra Prime, and five bags of sand for twenty-five pounds total. I was feeling lighthearted after buying the stuff (or maybe the wallet was, I can't remember) but at least I got almost everything out of the way.

Only new question is, what's the best way to rinse the sand and get it settled in the tank? It's Estes aquarium sand, not the real cheapie stuff. I do know not to run the filter and that the tank might get a bit cloudy, but I've never tried sand before. Tips are appreciated.

EDIT: No reply from Frybabies.com to my e-mail, sent over thirty hours ago.

Last edited by sirbooks at 30-Dec-2005 22:17

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Hatchetfish are jumpers, watch that when you're doing the several water changes this tank will need

If you go plecos for breeding, choose a species that stays small. The reason I suggested BN's, one of my friends breeds them.. She makes more selling bn's then the ram, apisto and angel breeders I know. That tells me she's onto something...

For the most part there is no puzzle to crack for breeding. All the info is out here in the net, spend a couple hours, make notes. Breeding is this, water quality, diet, a fertile pair, enough space, and HEALTHY fish. Do I think you're being cocky ? Of course not ! Confidence stemmed from research/knowledge is not a bad thing..

Good point about setting up the tank right. Provide a healthy environment for the fish and spawnings occur even when people don't plan for it. When you plan for it, that's when it may not occur, leading to frustration. Yin/Yang.

But yes sometimes problems occur, then have a puzzle to crack.. What caused this ? Did the eggs not hatch ? Were they fertile ? What's the ph/gh/kh ? Make notes of it. Is there water movement near the eggs or are they in a 'still' area ? Were they eaten by the parents or tankmates ? Why ? What needs to be adjusted ? Be curious.

Research, ask questions, try different things, starting with a 'tried and true' setup, then customize what works for you or better suits your situation or your fishes situation.. Taking a break now.... Tired........ Almost Friday
Peace,
DaFish

The Amazon Nut...

"Tetras would be a poor choice for tankmates..."

Yep, that's why I was looking at hatchetfish. I don't think any fish besides the breeders would be necessary though, so I'm still undecided.

"With a 20ga only and no fry growout tanks, space is very limited here. You'll need to make a species tank with one pair of fish, and maybe a few WELL researched dithers and cleaners. (semi-community breeding tank)"

Either one pair of plecos or a group of Corydoras would likely be the only critters in the tank. I figure that will allow me a bit more room to work with the fry, especially since the adult fish would all be small as well.

Funny thing is, I'm worried about setting up the tank more than I am about the actual breeding. I'm probably being cocky, but I think that if I get everything set up right then the breeding will be the easy and fun part. After all, a lot of these fish aren't as problematic to breed as we are led to believe. Giving them their own tank and concentrating on breeding can crack the puzzle.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Quick link re corydoras for you

[link=http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/breedpan.htm]http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/breedpan.htm" style="COLOR: #FFFFFF[/link]

The Amazon Nut...

Tetras would be a poor choice for tankmates, they often will work in a group, some distracting the parents, while the others divebomb the eggs or fry. Your cories or apistos won't like that much !

With a 20ga only and no fry growout tanks, space is very limited here. You'll need to make a species tank with one pair of fish, and maybe a few WELL researched dithers and cleaners. (semi-community breeding tank) And you'll prob find yourself culling some fry as well as pulling some eggs to avoid overcrowding as the others grow out (for about 3 months). If not using sponge filters, you'll need a pre-filter sponge over the intake tube of your hob filter so the fry won't get sucked up. If your eggs don't hatch you'll need to soften your water and keep it that way. R/O water, co2 or peat are a few ways.

A pair of apistos or Bristlenose Plecos would be ideal to breed in a 20g long. Clay pots will be needed for BN's and cave spawning apistos.. Flat rocks and or sand patches for apistos that are substrate spawners. Hope any of this helps. Good luck and enjoy your new venture

ps - I'm not familiar with cories breeding requirements sorry !

The Amazon Nut...

Thanks for that. I knew the CO2 wouldn't be advantageous to the fish, but I'm clueless about plant ferts. Just too lazy to deal with them most of the time.

Frybabies, eh? Thanks for the reference, I've never been there before.

I did see some four cm garnet tetras at the store yesterday (And eight cm Brochis multiradiatus that blew my mind! Almost $30 per though), but I'm iffy on the tetras because I think they would be trouble with Corydoras eggs. I'll look through the site for more ideas.

I appreciate all the help, keep it coming!

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Don't add ferts or CO2 if you plan on breeding anything. The best source of plecos, I maintain, is still online. Neither fish2u nor liveaquaria are known for their prices and service (well, former and latter, respectively). I've tried frybabies.com before for L270s, 34s, and adolfis, and I CANNOT reccommend them enough. Not only are their shipping, prices (wholesale directly, so you can get adolfis at like, 5 bucks a pop), and selection good, they have both exotic corydoras and plecos (queen a's for 18 buck? Get outta town!) en masse. E mail Julie and let her know Jon forwarded you. If any tankmates, I'd consider only guppies (free food for the plecos ad cories) or smaller tetras that you seem to be fond of (cardinals are a favorite). Of course, there's always aquabid as well.



Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 29-Dec-2005 12:59

My mind is fickle. Now I've ruled out breeding any fish but cories or some type of pleco, still undecided on species. Any opinions on which would do best with white sand and the other stuff mentioned? Pleco poop will probably show up pretty well, but I bet plecs would like the driftwood somewhat. If I do buy fish from the 'Net, I'd probably end up paying about the same price for a shoal of Corydoras or a pair of plecos.

I may try a top-dwelling Characin like hatchetfish, who I presume would leave any eggs alone. Opinions?

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

For cories, you need the sand thin enough so the barbels can touch the glass bottom to promote consistent elongation. This makes the layer of sand so thin that a simle powerhead or even a power filter could easily displace the stuff.

I'll be able to hold a group of davidsandsi or the similis. Both are in grow-out tanks, but the davidsandsi are larger and older so far. Dunno which I'll end up choosing.

Anybody think the hatchetfish would be worth the trouble? They would make feeding more difficult, and could die and foul up the water. But I would like some fish in the tank shortly, and I'll have to wait on the cories. Opinions would be great.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Even though the hatchetfish pretty much stay in the upper levels of the tank, wouldn't they be a danger to the eggs or small fry if you're planning on breeding the cory's? Or were you planning on removing them when this happens?

I like hatchet fish and think they make a great addition to tanks, but not sure if they would fit into this scenario.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

That didn't work out so well. After waiting over two months for the C. similis fry to grow, I'm told that there are only six in stock. I know I'm being kind of picky, but I want to have at least ten of whichever species I end up with, or more if I can get them. The fry may have been very small, but it would have saved some time if he had tried counting them beforehand.
I might just end up going to the local shop and picking out a species I like, then haggling over the price. If I want ten C. sterbai, I'm not going to pay $13 each for them.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

$13 US per fish?

Here in the UK, that would be a bargain price for Sterbais. Here they're £12 each - at current exchange rates that's around $19 per fish!

One anomaly here is guapore - supposedly rare, yet cheaper than Pandas at just £7 each ... ???


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Turns out the store had lowered the price of their C. sterbai to $8.99 each since the last time I visited... I was able to haggle a manager down to $69.99 for the ten fish. I'm so proud of myself. They seem to be in good condition and apparently like the sand in their new tank. Pics will follow up shortly.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Not great news. Though the critters seem to like frozen bloodworms and shrimp pellets, they are slow to eat and don't consume a whole lot. At this point I'm going to attribute that to their recent move and young age, so hopefully they'll shape up. Tank temperature is about 77 F, soon to go up a bit, so I'm expecting them to grow fairly quickly.

I lost one fish though. I believe it was the one that stayed in the corner most of the time and didn't eat. The rest seem to be okay so far.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

After that terrific demonstration of my laziness, I'll give an update. The tank went through a horrible green water problem soon after I bought the fish, and I put off doing anything about it for several weeks. Then for one week I turned off the lights and did several water changes, so the water is now almost completely clear. I've added a rock pile to one corner of the tank and bought some Malaysian driftwood, which is now soaking.

And for the fish- another cory died, but the remaining eight have been pretty active. They hate me, however, and flee whenever I go anywhere near them. I get that all the time.

Yesterday I decided I was bored with a tank of just cories, and went with the original Plan B- Apistos. I found a nearby-ish store which actually doesn't suck, and picked up three Apistogramma macmasteri. They're very small right now, *maybe* an inch, but are already eating and coloring up. I tried to get two females and a male, but I think one of the "females" is looking more and more masculine. I'll exchange him for another one later this week. Overall I'm pretty happy with the progress of this tank, and I like it more than my first one. The twenty-nine gallon was pretty randomly thrown together.

I'm going to do a lot of thinking about where I'll go with the water. Our tap water is hard, pH about 7.7 or so. I may end up slowly refilling this tank with partial or all RO water, reconstituted with some blackwater mix. We shall see.

Anyhoo, pictures:


The rock stack. I'm very proud of it.


The dominant male Apisto. He's already getting some color.



The female. She's quite healthy and plump.



The suspected male. He's starting to look different than he was at the store.


Corydoras alive and well, but hateful.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

I was wondering if you were going to continue with this thread Sirbooks. The apisto's are looking nice and should help to give a variety to the tank and hopefully spawn for you.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

The dominant male started chasing around the other one today, so it's good that I returned him. I picked up what was apparently the only female left in the store, and she was in bad shape. She has a torn tail fin and a wound in the middle of the forehead. I took a gamble buying her, but with luck things will work out. She was upset about the move and sat on the sand after I dripped her, but went up to the water's surface to eat flake food later. I think she'll do okay.

Added the driftwood and rearranged the planting a little. I also ordered some Purigen, hopefully this and the cleanliness (nitrates 5 ppm) will be enough for the critters. The Purigen should clear up the water, so full tank shots will be coming in about a week or so once the product arrives. I'm pretty hopeful about the future of this tank and the fish.

EDIT: I'm fairly sure the injuries on the new female were caused by the males she was housed with, not a disease. I'll keep a close watch on her just the same.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Just keep a close eye on her to make sure she doesn't develop an infection/fungus in her wounds. It might even be beneficial to possibly go ahead and treat her just to make sure.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Looks like the right eye is popped out too. I hate to treat the tank for seemingly mild problems on just one fish, so I'll just have to do a few extra water changes. I wish I had a quarantine tank because of cases like this. I'd hate to lose the little girl, she's getting along pretty well.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

A small plastic container or tub would suffice for a temporary hospital or treatment tank. You could siphon off say 50% of your water from the tank into it and use a small sponge filter for filtration. If you feed lightly you should be able to accomplish without much of a cycle problem.


Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Another green algae bloom has turned my tank back into the Hudson River. Update when things clear out.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Sorry to hear about the most recent setback on this setup.

It seems like you just can't get things to go along smoothly on this one. Have you figured out what may be causing the algae blooms?

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Maybe having a two bulb flourescent light on for eight hours a day, just for growing a couple of moss balls. I have a one bulb fixture in my closet, I guess I'll switch the two out.

The one Apisto was looking a lot better, but went way downhill a couple days ago. It's just hiding in the rock pile, barely breathing. Poor fish.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."